Saturday, March 12, 2005

Tragedy Hits the Boalt Community

As I write this close to 4 AM, I am still probably too angry to rationally express what I ought to say, or more importantly what I ought to not express. During one of, perhaps the only, afterparty following the Barrister's Ball, one of MY, OUR classmates was shot by two African-American kids. I don't want to say anymore about the incident itself for obvious and not so obvious reasons.

I hope to see him tomorrow. If anyone is interested in joining me in wishing him well, e-mail me or call me (it's not hard to find my number).

In the past hour since I've finished giving statements to Berkeley P.D. I've done more abstract thinking about just how much this sucks. This city exists solely because of the university. If the students who attend there do not feel safe, what's the point? Boalt Briefs (the sarcastic two-page newsletter) remarked in an early edition how studying criminal law in Berkeley is like studying art in Florence or history in Athens. Well now the statement is not exactly sarcastic. My fucking friend was shot. Again, maybe it's the anger of the moment that's coming through, but right about now I'm nostalgic for the crimes often occuring in Westwood. I have too many other thoughts whirling through my head none of which are organized in any way shape or form.

I do want to thank the host of the party for stepping up in an unenviable situation.

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38 Comments:

Blogger Tom Fletcher said...

What happened?

I've been in the woods...

3/12/2005 3:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You've gotta watch out for those African-American youths. Good thing it wasn't an Asian-American behind the gun - even the ones that don't become programmers or math PhDs have an innate ability to calculate bullet trajectories.

3/12/2005 5:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This city exists solely because of the university. If the students who attend there do not feel safe, what's the point?"
Oh give me a break. I'm a friend of the guy who got shot too, but I don't think that he or any other Berkeley student deserves a guarantee of safety just by virtue of being a student. You'd prefer it be only non-student who are victims of violent crime? How very progressive of you. [/eyeroll] I'd like to think that for the 3 or 4 years that we are students in this city, we could at least attempt to think of ourselves as part of the larger community.

3/12/2005 6:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe next time you'll spend two seconds thinking about what you write before you put it on your blog.

Would you have felt it necessary to include the race of the assailants if they were white? What about the race of the victim?

3/12/2005 7:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the point is that, among people at the party, that's all anyone knew about the identities of the attacks: it was two young black guys. What's wrong with including all the identifying information you have? If it was known that it was a heavy-set guy, or someone with a beard, or someone wearing all Nike, or an older guy, that'd be relevant too. Or are you in favor of hiding information when something goes down? How deliciously liberal of you.

3/12/2005 7:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 7:58 --

The inclusion of race information was clearly not to aid in identifying the perpetrators. There was no mention of age, clothing, etc. Mentioning that someone's black does NOT help when a significant portion of the neighboring population is black.

The post draws a stark contrast between Berkeley students v. African American kids. Problematic on many levels. Why not say "shot by a bunch of kids who were clearly not Berkeley students" -- it would've communicated Armen's point about student safety without conveying a disturbing racial undertone?

Then again I understand Armen's angry and flustered so I am inclined to cut him some slack right now.

3/12/2005 8:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please explain the "disturbing racial undertone." There was no mention of age or clothing because no one knew what age or what clothing there was. I know. I was there. What little information we did get was that it was two young black guys. That's exactly what Armen wrote. Using 3 words -- "young black guys" -- to describe something that could be done in 12 -- "shot by a bunch of kids who were clearly not Berkeley students" -- isn't called racism. It's called writing.

As for Berkeley and the surrounding community, it is indeed tragic and telliing that California's flagship university is composed mostly of rich white kids set amid poor black ones. And that most of the crime is committed by the poor black ones. But I'd offer that it is you, not Armen, who is uncomfortable discussing the tragedy of that race/crime nexus.

3/12/2005 8:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't post the "disturbing racial undertones" comment, but I concur with it completely. It is disturbing that Armen felt the need to point out that the shooters where black. Especially when that was the only specific detail of the incident. It reinforces the idea that one of the main messages Armen took away from this experience is that people who shoot other people are black. I don't think I'm misreading him here, particularly given his elitist complaints that the city of Berkeley dare permit a Berkeley student to be harmed within city limits.

I can see how you might argue that, statistically, African-Americans do commit the most violent crimes, and it's the fact of that that should be upsetting, not Armen's acknowledgement of it. But men committ more violent crimes than women, for example, and Armen didn't feel the need to point out the shooters' gender.

I'm just saying that in a very short post, Armen managed to show off a lot of racist / classist sentiment. Which is why he should take the advice of someone upthread and think a little bit before posting.

3/12/2005 9:08 PM  
Blogger Armen said...

I can see how you might argue that, statistically, African-Americans do commit the most violent crimes, and it's the fact of that that should be upsetting, not Armen's acknowledgement of it. But men committ more violent crimes than women, for example, and Armen didn't feel the need to point out the shooters' gender.

I'm just saying that in a very short post, Armen managed to show off a lot of racist / classist sentiment. Which is why he should take the advice of someone upthread and think a little bit before posting.


I actually did manage to choose my words carefully in describing the suspects because as one of the three people who actually saw the suspects approaching the victim, I may down the road have to testify or identify them. I wanted to say as much as I could without coloring my own perception of the event and anyone else's. While I appreciate a lot of the knee-jerk Armen is a closet, or I guess now, openly racist douche comments, I don't think it's too much to ask if people actually considered context.

The race or anything else about the victim was not revealed because I don't want to broadcast WHO THE VICTIM WAS!!! If this is not self-evident, I really cannot offer you too much more.

As for the suspects, again, I did not include anything specific such as what they were wearing for reasons explained. I didn't include gender, because much like the commenter above, I think it's fairly safe to know which sex they belonged to.

In the end I don't know why included the race. I do want to note that when getting the description of the suspects the officer for both of them had to stop and make me note their race first. (I jumped to age for both). I'm going to leave it at that since I'm not particularly eager to beg for forgiveness of anyone accusing me of latent or overt racism.

As for my comments about the safety of students.

1. Let's ignore Berkeley Hills and North Berkeley for a second. A VERY substantial number of people living in Downtown and South Berkeley are students.

2. Crime is important when it comes to choice for school. This is the reason all colleges and universities are required to report their crime statistics to receive federal funds (Hmm...I just realized a Solomon Amendment counter argument, anyway). But crime statistics from neighboring areas are not as easily available.

3. Combine 1 and 2 and you have a serious reason for the University to go after the city about how it allocates its resources. I think this would be a great favor returned for the city suing the university over its development plan.

4. Anyway you cut it, I don't care if you're the mayor of Berkeley, the city's image is tied to the university. That's what put it on the map. [controversial statement ahead] I think for its own image sake, the city should do its best to ensure the safety of those who contribute to that identity. I'm not asking for anything special for the students over others. I'm just asking that the powers that be don't ignore the parts of the city that aren't propertied permanent residents of teh city. For four years I had to put up with this crap in Westwood. If you want to see what night and day look like when next to each other, drive down Veteran Avenue from Sunsent to Wilshire. Where Westwood differed is how the UCPD operated. I noticed this when I first got here. Outside of the campus and university property off campus, the UCPD does not patrol the city. Westwood is pretty much completely under UCPD oversight. LAPD's West LA division would much rather concentrate on Palms or the Olympic corridor. Sometimes you'd see an LAPD unit, but this was rare. Obviously I can't imply any cause and effect from this, but at the very least there was an effort by UCPD to reach to the areas where students lived and extend its presence there. (Again, Westwood not really known for its violent crime spree as South Berkeley is, so not much to be drawn from that).

5. I'd like to point to U$C as an example of a school dealing with a shitty neighborhood problem. Throw money at it.

3/12/2005 9:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's totally right that the city ought to devote more of its (admittedly limited) resources to protecting UC students. Most of us are white, most of us came from wealthy families (at least compared with the population outside the university), most of us are quite accustomed to privilege. We are not the sort of people who just roll over when we are victimized. We get angry. We fight back. We build more jails. We fill them.

Quite frankly, I don't think it's reasonable to expect us to settle for less than our share. Considering what we plan to contribute to the greater society over our lives, our share is quite large.

I should also add that I found Armen's description quite helpful. I would have rather had more information, but what he gave us was enough for me to spot quite a few suspects, who I promptly reported to the Berkely PD. Hopefully they are in jail by now.

I was curious about one thing. Armen didn't say where the party was. I assume it was close to campus in an area populated mostly by students, rather than other less desirable residents. I hope it wasn't in a neighboring city that does not have the incentive to give students the extra protection they so richly deserve.

Speaking of surrounding areas, does someone have a good idea bout how we could get Oakland to get their priorities straight and pay more attention to the needs of those UCB students who choose to live there? I heard that some people (probably non-student residents) have suggested that Oakland devote fewer resources to low and moderate crime areas (the areas populated by Berkeley students), and more to the areas where most crime now occurs (even though almost none of the crime in those areas affects university students). Something needs to be done.

3/12/2005 10:34 PM  
Blogger Armen said...

I will always applaud satire. :D

Although as per BPD instructions, the onus is now on me to try to identify the suspects and tell them with which crime I'd previously associated them.

3/12/2005 10:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What the heck is wrong with you people??? Can you for one second forget your "progressive" views and focus on what Armen is trying to convey – that a friend was shot.

Jesus Christ.

I am always entertained by Boalt’s liberal student body. It is fun to see how these tree-huggers have no fucking clue of how the outside world works. But this is no laughing matter. When an honest tax paying citizen who is trying to better himself, who is a former cop himself, who is minding his own fucking business, gets shot - can we for once admit that there is a problem here?

And yes, the students do deserve security. Without the University, Berkeley would just be a bunch of hippies smoking weed and working on communion farms. While we should all be tolerant of the idiosyncratic lifestyles of the residents, let us please forget the PC bullshit when it comes to safety. As a student, I demand better of this city. I deserve to be protected, because I (the collective students) am your biggest client. All your social programs wouldnt exist without my tuition, and spending.

That God damn high school is a problem. I all the time see gangs of students roving around. They need to do something about that place.

And no, the mention of the perps' race was not at all racist. It was dark you pinkos. It was 2 frkin AM you idiots. He probably doesnt remember any other details. Perhaps you have tragedy in your life everyday. But for us normal people, these are traumatic experiences. Give him a break.

And when there are trouble groups, let us recognize it and say they are troubled groups. The fact is black kids do commit more violent crimes than other kids. If you want to keep your head stuffed up your ass, be my guest. I hope your son/sister/mom gets mugged and shot by one of these gangsters. Lets see how PC your liberal ass remains then.

Face the reality you fuckin pinkos. And if its too harsh for you, please leave this country and migrate to Chad. You will do both nations a huge favor. I hear they need "public interest" lawyers there.

3/12/2005 11:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

correct me if i'm wrong, but the school is majority asian...

3/12/2005 11:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:47 -- I believe Berkeley undergrad is plurality Asian American; around 40-45% last time I checked. Clearly, then, Asians are underrepresented at Boalt and this is a situation that should be rectified by an aggressive affirmative action regime for affluent Americans of East Asian extraction.

11:19 -- Calm the fuck down. One can convey a story about a friend getting shot without writing racist shit (not saying that's what happened in this particular case). I believe people are just saying that if one's first reaction to a friend getting shot isn't "holy fuck, my friend just got shot!" but "holy fuck, my friend just got shot by a bunch of black guys!" then MAYBE that's something to think about when one later has time for self-reflection. No one is trying excuse the poor guy getting shot or defending the perps, geez.

"Face the reality you fuckin pinkos. And if its too harsh for you, please leave this country and migrate to Chad. You will do both nations a huge favor."

Ah, yes, the familiar "conservatives made this country great" refrain. Love it or leave it!!

3/13/2005 12:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoa, 11:19, were you at the party? I'm not sure name-calling is called for, but there is a bare hint of a truth in there: if cities don't protect their more affluent residents, the affluent residents leave. When affluent residents leave, the economy crumbles and the people left behind face a more dire situation. See, e.g., a history of cities in the last 40 years. Or just LA in the early 90s.

So lets try to remember that it is in everyone's interests -- and MOST CERTAINLY the poor's -- to have a mix of people living together in urban centers. To the degree that fostering safety makes that exponentially more likely, then yes, the city needs to invest more in crime prevention. That doesn't necessarily mean more jails -- indeed, it may mean more experimental, progressive crime prevention programs -- but it does mean investment just the same. Any liberal who can't see that is a liberal consigning himself to political irrelevance.

As a final update, I've heard the victim is at home recuperating and will be fine -- some good and relieving news we can all cheer.

3/13/2005 12:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey morons, leave the dude alone. His friend just got SHOT and all you can think to do is to be PC. You are the reason why mainstream america has blown off the PC movement.

3/13/2005 2:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"As a final update, I've heard the victim is at home recuperating and will be fine -- some good and relieving news we can all cheer."

What about the REAL victim here: the African-American community? Rich college kids can recover from gunshot wounds easily enough, but how can African-Americans recover from hate speech like this?

3/13/2005 2:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is race important when admitting students to Boalt, but not so when those students gets attacked?

Double standards?

3/13/2005 3:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a bunch of tools. Somebody gets shot and you all are upset that the agressors were identified by their race. Seriously. You guys suck.

3/13/2005 7:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good Lord. I think race is irrelevant here, but for a different reason - does anyone BUT blacks committ violent crime in Berkeley? Maybe a smattering of Mexi-salvadorans, but that's it.

Hopefully the dudes who did the shooting will get their asses wasted by a rival gang, or otherwise killed by cops. There is a lot of human trash in this world, and it's unfortunate when it intersects with actual, worthwhile people.

3/13/2005 9:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some idiot posted this shit:
“What about the REAL victim here: the African-American community? Rich college kids can recover from gunshot wounds easily enough, but how can African-Americans recover from hate speech like this?”

You know what, moron, fuck you and the 2 shooters! I hope you’re the next guy they shoot, you filthy piece of shit. Then we’ll see how fast you recover.

The guy who got shot is my friend. He’s a hard-working guy who put his ass on the line for years as a cop to protect the scum of the earth who sot him. You’re probably some filthy, dope-smoking hippie piece of trash. You probably never worked a day in your life. Think its easy to recover from a gunshot wound, you tree-hugging degenerate? I can’ WAIT till some black kids rob you and put a slug in your ass. I’ll make a point to come to your hospital bed and spit you in the eye.

As you’re contemplating the above with your few remaining brain-cells, I just wanted to point out that there was NOTHING racist in Armen’s post. If you think there was, you are obviously a complete idiot. You don’t even deserve to live in America. You are a waste of oxygen. Please take the advice of my fellow student and move to Chad.

Lastly, I hope the two shooters get raped in prison.

3/13/2005 11:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys, first I want to say I am right there with everyone else who is really glad that our classmate is going to be ok. And great job to H. for taking care of things after the party.
Having said that, I think we need to calm down here. Armen posted at 4 am after seeing a friend get shot. He probably posted the bit about African-Americans because the cops had probably just focused on that for two hours in questioning him. We do live in a society where racism exists and we should be dedicated to fighting it of course but I think we should cut Armen some slack here and focus on our injured classmate (which is what it seems everyone is doing).
The issue has been raised and, knowing that Armen is a thoughtful guy, I think he'll give it as much attention as it deserves, along with everyone else from Boalt who is reading this.
I really think the people responding to the intial criticism of one or two students are getting a bit out-of-hand though. Aren't we a little above name-calling? I guess some of the worst posts are from outsiders who just want to trash Berkeley (I think this is getting cross-posted on some message boards frequented by racists, like the xoxohth.com board). But I think the bottom line is that we have an incredibly small issue here (compared to the big issue of our friend being shot that has us all on the same page) that if it were being discussed at Boalt would be dealt with civilly and quickly. Since it's online, it is getting overblown. Let's just hold off on the name-calling until Monday and I think everything will work out just fine.
As a someone who had been severely beaten by several white police officers once said, "can't we all just get along?" At Boalt, I think the answer is definitely yes.
Now let's get back to being thankful no one was seriously injured and celebrate Selection Sunday!

PS As someone who lives in the same neighborhood off of Telegraph, I think that Berkeley is far safer than many other places I've lived and would be more so if the cops would stop harrassing students and focus on real crime. Of course there are problems but I think overall, we have one of the world's top three universities in the middle of a community that has been under a lot of stress (.com boom/bust, etc.) and I still feel infinitely safer walking within the few miles around campus than I would walking just a few blocks from, say, Columbia, Penn, USC, or Yale.

3/13/2005 11:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

These posts are descending to mere provocation now. I hope that people won't take the bait.
The ridiculousness and misunderstandings that characterize this whole affair (the nasty and childish argument on this website, not the shooting--which is awful and much more serious) remind me of why I would never think of blogging and why the internet is a really bad place to have a decent discussion.

3/13/2005 12:00 PM  
Blogger Armen said...

I want to single out Anonymous 11:42 (two posts above) and just say I agree with every single thing you say. I want to expand on a few of them.

And great job to H. for taking care of things after the party.

I really cannot stress this enough.

As someone who lives in the same neighborhood off of Telegraph, I think that Berkeley is far safer than many other places I've lived and would be more so if the cops would stop harrassing students and focus on real crime.

A great deal of my frustration comes from this. (1) Earlier that night BPD had showed up to the party to ask the people outside to keep the noise down and go inside otherwise they'd be cited for open-container. The victim politely dealt with the officers and that was that (or so he told me). When investigating the shooting BPD did not find the shell casing. This is what really pisses me off. IF these kids are dumb enough to pull the trigger in front of a house with 70 people in it, they're quite likely to do it again somewhere else. That casing is what's going to link them to both. (2) The officer taking my statement was the same one who'd given me a fix-it ticket 2 weeks earlier, along with a seat-belt ticket to one of the rear passengers. (3) Same officer used a resigned tone to tell me to call BPD if I see the suspects. As I've said above, I understand why they'd tell me that (so I don't panic and scream like a wuss when I see them) but the tone definitely implied "umm well you're our last hope...these things happen...not much you can do."

Now let's get back to being thankful no one was seriously injured and celebrate Selection Sunday!

AMEN!!!! (to that and to everything else 11:42 said. I only hope this will be the last on this.

3/13/2005 1:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is hard for me to understand is how people can still make excuses for African Americans. Maybe if people took responsiblitiy for their lives (as in not leaving their wives, getting a job, paying taxes) instead of bitching about how much society is stacked against them, we'd hear less about blacks shooting people. Let's have the courage here to call evil by its real name-- shooting/mugging people is bullshit. Nothing more, nothign less. All the liberals
(you know who you are) who keep making excuses for blacks, minorities, women, fat people, the poor, and every other person under the sun only perpetuate the problem. People should take responsbility for their actions instead of blaming society for their problems.

3/13/2005 1:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Armen, I made the comment above about thinking before you put something on your blog. That was the only comment I made. Now, I still think it was a odd for you to point out that the assailants were black, while giving no other details.
BUT, more importantly, I also recognize (from reading your blog regularly), that you're a pretty thoughtful and understanding guy, and that you just went through a really scary and traumatic event.

This comment thread has got completely out of hand with the name calling, and I just wanted to clarify how I felt about the situation.

I don't think the divide between us is as great as some of the (what I suspect to be non-boalt) commenters have portrayed. We just need to be careful when we describe events in a way that seems to focus more on race than the underlying tragedy.

I hope the reasonable among us can ignore the vitrolic posts that just seem to inspire hate.

Finally Armen, I hope you don't take any of the comments critical of your portrayal as insensitive toward your situation. That was by no means my intent.

3/13/2005 2:57 PM  
Blogger Armen said...

This comment thread has got completely out of hand with the name calling, and I just wanted to clarify how I felt about the situation.

Yeah, I agree. The post above yours is perfect example of the idiocy and bigotry that exists out there, and probably the reason why some reacted the way they did to my post. I also don't appreciate any outsider criticizing my school and/or my classmates for opining.

Just as a fair warning, I will (for the first time) consider deleting comments if they're anything less than civil.

3/13/2005 3:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think what is happening is that people are reading the first few comments (which are way out left), getting all riled up, and then responding. A balanced comment will elicit a balanced response. You cannot blame people for responding angrily when the initial comments were themselves way less than perfect.

Also, I think the Boalt pride is a little misplaced. Just because someone has posted something disagreeable does not mean that they are outsiders. There are plenty of us at Boalt who are not aligned with the mainstream Boalt view (liberal) on life and politics.

Lets be honest. We have problems, and I think others ought to know about it. Application season is in full swing and those deciding to come to Boalt from far and wide should know exactly where they are going. Only if we face it, can we make this a better, safer place for all of us.

3/13/2005 3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If everyone who posted on this thread is a Boalt student, that should dispel any myths about Boalt being a liberal institution. I just hope the racist posts and those advocating rape, killing, etc., are not by Boalt students.

3/13/2005 3:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of the critical "liberal" comments on this post have been mild and civil -- people are just saying "hey man, here's just something to think about." I don't know how that's so horrible, and maybe people just aren't discussing the victim out of respect for his privacy and that we've heard that he's going to be fine.

No one has suggested that it wasn't a horrible and horrific event that a student got shot -- the extreme comments have come from those who've seized this opportunity to rabidly denounce liberal, racial minorities, and Berkeley.

3/13/2005 4:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am one of the more conservative posters here, but I have to admit, posts by '174' serve no purpose and should be removed asap.

3/13/2005 4:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, where'd all these right-wing lunatics come from? Are the Stanford kids logging on again? (Just kidding.) No, seriously, isn't there a sheet somewhere you should be wearing?

3/13/2005 4:45 PM  
Blogger Armen said...

I am one of the more conservative posters here, but I have to admit, posts by '174' serve no purpose and should be removed asap.

Wish granted.

3/13/2005 4:54 PM  
Anonymous So not anonymous said...

Dontcha just love how this post has more comments than probably any other in the brief history of N&B, and yet every single (outside) commenter was Anonymous. When it comes to discussions about race, even a clever pseudonym is just too risky... (I'm not telling which of the above comments was mine, but it wasn't the one that was erased)

3/13/2005 10:12 PM  
Blogger Tom Fletcher said...

Oh my, the Internet.

I vote for no anonymous posting. Of course, people could still name themselves "anonymous1haha" but at least you could tie a comment to a handle. People should stand by what they say; implication: people will think through what they say first.

3/13/2005 11:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't mess with Blacks.

3/18/2005 3:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting. Those advocating death, torture, rape, and violence label themselves conservative and probably don't see themselves as racist. Maybe one day, society will realize it is THEY who are innately violent and who should be suspect in most crimes and rounded up simply for who they are and nothing else.

3/22/2005 3:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You people. ymost of you know nothing of berkeley. you come here to study, or otherwise live your liberal dream of "solidarity" with "the people of berkeley" while the whole time, since the 60's this place has been dangerous,and a very bad place to safely bring up a kid.
White fetishism about black culture.
the white people here have no pride, are all ultra guilty, crime-enabling, drug-tolerant, racists. yes racists. they LOVE the WORST aspects of blck culture. but the truth is, here in berkeley most upper class white people are TREMENDOUSLY uncomfortable with a black PHD, a black General, Or a black CEO. and that's real. I have lived here my whole life and watched this very particular group of white liberal idealists, sacrifice their children at the altar of their political and spiritual beliefs. (If you want to call making your children ashamed, just because you are, "spiritual")
yes. the majority of crime, and almost ALL violent crime here in berkeley is commited by BLACK MIDDLE CLASS YOUTH. and no. they are not "downtrodden" they live at home. they play on a PSP or XBOX. the smoke expensive greebud. they wear expensive clothing. they go to all the latest movies and eat whatever they want to. so try to work your "I'm here to help the black people" rap out of my fucking face. because you are NOT. if your were you might consider that stopping people from committing crimes that might send them to prison for life would be helping them.

11/05/2005 10:23 PM  

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