Callback in the USSR
Not really, but I just want a general thread to share callback stories and complaints. I think the first thing I want to note is how I kind of awkwardly did not tip the doorman when he hailed a cab for me. In my defense I was running on 3 hours of sleep. But relatedly, are those kinds of expenses covered by firms as per the NALP form?
Labels: OCIP/Employment
posted by Armen Adzhemyan at 10:31 PM
19 Comments:
Pretty good story from an interview I did yesterday.
Chicago firm, but I'm interviewing with a Boalt alum who just happened to know exactly where I lived and said he went to parties at my place about 10 times his 3L year. He was really good friends with a guy that lived there and asked if I had ever met him. I said I thought so, once when he came by to pick up his old mail. Now I knew, thanks to an old roomate, that this guy did not play for our team if you know what I mean (not that there's anything wrong with that).
So we're talking about whether the parties were good or bad and I ask where his friend (the house's previous occupier) is living now, expecting a city for an answer. He replies - "Oh, I'm pretty sure he's living in the Castro now."
I almost choked on my water and, as the interviewer was obviously great friends with the guy, I'm sure this was a little inside joke he had. I didn't know whether to acknowledge it or let it slide. I let it slide. It was a great firm, and this guy in particular was very cool so I didn't want to risk acknowledging the overtly homosexual reference.
Re: the callback with the Chicago firm: Am I missing something here? What's the big deal? Someone's gay and lives in the Castro? And what do you mean "play for OUR team?" You think everyone who reads this is straight? Not saying you're a homophobe, but you're sure making a lot out of this. What gives?
I don't get it either. What's the point? If he had said, "he's married and he and his wife have their own buisness" would you have choked at the overtly heterosexual reference?
Boo! What do you mean you didn't know whether to acknowledge the overtly homosexual reference?
Can we just erase this one and start over with posts not written by homophobic-curious dumbasses?
Here's a serious callback question:
Should a person be careful about being overly-swayed by the impression they get from callbacks and on-campus screening interviews? As with law school admitted student days, I am sure most firms are very careful about what they let prospective hires see. If this is true, how wary should one be about impressions one gets from interviews/controlled visits?
And on the flip-side, I guess everyone has realized by now that Vault and the other sources we have access to are pretty useless, so one can't really choose based on a firm being ranked #20 vs. #50 by Vault.
Perhaps we're left with the summer associate feed-back binders in CDO and talking to 3Ls who worked at the firm last summer? Of course, the problem is that even summer associates are often sheilded adn often don't get the real(ly awful) experience of actually working at their respective big firm.
I don't think the chicago story was homophobic as much as it just was not a very good story.
I went on an interview last week and we went to lunch at some restaurant. The first problem, we valeted the car to have it parked literally 5 feet from where we got out. Second, it was a hundred degrees out and I was in a bloody suit and the people I went with decided they wanted to eat outside in the patio. Lastly, I spent the entire lunch being attacked by a bee! I hate bees and couldn't help but freak out to some degree. The bee touched me four times on my face and the whole event was a mess. I finally decided to cover my food (with the cloth napkin btw) to get the bee to go away. Hooray, it worked but we had to steal a napkin from the neighboring table for me to use since mine was obviously dirty. So, take two, I remove the napkin and who decides to come back....the F'n Bee!!! I spent another minute or two trying to play it off before I ultimately just covered the food again and told them I'd take it home. I'm sure my squirming left a great impression...whatever. Overall, I think it went well :)
Can people post when they receive an offer from a callback...same as before date interviewed and of offer and office location.
People are free to do as they please, but I would STRONGLY DISCOURAGE the posting of offers for a few reasons.
1. Anonymity is nearly gone.
2. Each listing of a callback offer would be useful only to a handful of people (I personally don't care if you or anyone else got a callback from Frim X at Location Y that I did not interview with).
3. Since the offer is only important to a small number of people, I'm certain the firms are completely adequate in informing you one way or another when that time arrives.
Not an embarrassing story, but food for thought RE firms' hiring processes:
At a callback lunch, I told the two junior associates I was with about certain firms' proclivity to send rejection letters to students who hadn't even interviewed with the firm.
They said that was nothing: a Boalt student some time in the recent past received a rejection letter from a major firm with her resume stapled to it. Upon the resume was a handwritten comment: "Two children. No."
An invitation to be sued?
Are the offers made after a callback interview usually mailed or do they call?
two good questions to ask at callbacks:
(1) if you ever have a bad day at work here, what makes it a bad day?
(2) is there anything you wish you had known about the firm before you started? maybe something that would have eased your transition into being a working laywer?
(2) if at all possible, get them to talk about their secretaries. "how much of your day is spent on routine administrative tasks, like asking for help from the secretary or looking for files?" i know it seems weird, and definitely dont just come out and ask about how secretaries are assigned, because it will make you seem arrogrant...but watch how they treat their secretaries. if they have to "rotate" them in order to keep one secretary from suffering too much abuse, beware...it is never a good sign if secretaries are yelled at because new associates are often treated no differently when a partner is angry.
two good questions to ask at callbacks:
(1) if you ever have a bad day at work here, what makes it a bad day?
(2) is there anything you wish you had known about the firm before you started? maybe something that would have eased your transition into being a working laywer?
(2) if at all possible, get them to talk about their secretaries. "how much of your day is spent on routine administrative tasks, like asking for help from the secretary or looking for files?" i know it seems weird, and definitely dont just come out and ask about how secretaries are assigned, because it will make you seem arrogrant...but watch how they treat their secretaries. if they have to "rotate" them in order to keep one secretary from suffering too much abuse, beware...it is never a good sign if secretaries are yelled at because new associates are often treated no differently when a partner is angry.
10:17, offers are usually made by phone by one of the lawyers (can be a partner or an associate) you meet with during the callback. They will usually also send out an offer letter the same day AFTER they've spoken with you (either by US Mail or even Fed Ex).
And how about a rejection after a callback? Same thing as the offer (phone call and letter) or just letter?
Offers are generally made by the more senior partner with whom you interview, but it isn't always that way. Occasionally, it's an associate more your age, or even the recruiting coordinator.
Rejections after callbacks are generally just letters through ordinary mail. No one calls you to let you down easy.
And if you have a callback but don't hear a result for some time, it isn't necessarily bad news. Many firms' recruiting boards meet only once every two weeks. If you interview the day after the last meeting, your file won't be reviewed for almost 14 days.
One note on thank you cards after a callback--they're quite worthless.
This isn't funny, but at least my interviewer was honest. During my call back today, one of the associates I interviewed with apologized for being very tired and sleepy. I said, "That's okay, I understand." Then he said, "It's not you, it's just that I stayed here all night last night, and I haven't slept for about 48 hours. Oops. I shouldn't have told you that. Actually, I've only done this about 3 or 4 times. This place isn't really so bad. I really love working here." Then he started talking about how stressed out he was and how much work he had.
what are thoughts on the accuracy of these surveys we can view? like the AmLaw midlevel associates' survey--how much stock would you put in that (as a balancing factor against personal impressions of the people and whether or not they do the work you think you want, etc)
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