Post-offer leverage
Perhaps Disco Stu is the only one wondering if we 2Ls have any leverage on the firms and how best to go about using what we have.
DS did an excellent job when he graduated from college of playing two companies off each other and increasing his starting salary 8K plus getting a signing bonus. Can we do the same thing now?
For example, perhaps 3Ls (or enlightened 2Ls) could answer how DS can go about getting his number 1 choice firm to offer him a signing bonus that his number 2 firm offers a certain associate class upon joining. Or, alternatively, are signing bonuses so far off in the future (at least a year) that it doesn't really matter what one firm says they give IP associates upon signing - no firm will commit to it before you accept an offer for summer employment?
DS did an excellent job when he graduated from college of playing two companies off each other and increasing his starting salary 8K plus getting a signing bonus. Can we do the same thing now?
For example, perhaps 3Ls (or enlightened 2Ls) could answer how DS can go about getting his number 1 choice firm to offer him a signing bonus that his number 2 firm offers a certain associate class upon joining. Or, alternatively, are signing bonuses so far off in the future (at least a year) that it doesn't really matter what one firm says they give IP associates upon signing - no firm will commit to it before you accept an offer for summer employment?
Labels: OCIP/Employment
posted by Disco Stu at 6:10 PM
6 Comments:
I believe you have _some_ leverage regarding the conditions of your summer employment (e.g. splitting with other offices, types of work you'd rather see (bucking certain "rotation system" rotations). I've never heard of anyone being able to manipulate at this point the conditions of their post-summer associate employment. Especially with regards to compensation, where firms generally don't negotiate with recruits at all. Remember, there are a probably a bunch of other candidates the firm is just as happy to have in place of you who will have fewer demands (the firms will only be as happy because they don't know you like we know you DS!). So I'd say your bargaining position is still not so great that you can compel firms to make any concessions that they wouldn't make for any other candidate...
FWIW, that last comment was by a 2L. I know, because I wrote that last comment.
They won't do anything special for you, especially in terms of compensation. In fact, I would say that if you go so far as to ask for more $ from a firm, you should plan on never ever working there. I'm a 3L at Boalt.
In the words of the sage John Steele, the legal profession remains very guild-like in structure. That's why the compensation for first years at big firms is so uniform across the board. It's a state sanctioned monopoly.
Anyway, every offer letter I've seen for summer associates clearly says our compensation won't be set until the spring. It sucks, but I don't see any of us having any serous bargaining power.
I haven't heard many incidents of of firms bargaining over their basic starting salary. But firms sometimes negotiate for incidentals like moving costs, etc., and sometimes they offer a bump for extras like Ph.Ds, or MBAs, or federal clerking.
If you want to negotiate over that kind of thing, remember (1) that the firms are still evaluating you to see if you are what they consider a team player or an "entitlement seeker," and (2) quite often it's not whether you ask but *how* you ask.
If you decide to negotiate that sort of thing, stress that you like the firm, that you are new to this, that you are taking your career decisions seriously, and that after talking to various firms you felt that you needed to understand the compensation aspect at that firm. Then ask the question neutrally: e.g., do you offer any compensation or years toward partnership for federal clerking? If you add an emotional component, or sound hurt when the answer is "no" or "I'll get back to you," or play brinksmanship, then they may conclude you are not a team player. It's a subtle line to walk.
In my experience, more summer associates at big firms lose their permanent offers over attitude issues than over quality of work issues.
I think what leverage you have for more $ exists only after they've actually worked with you. I'm a 3L and at the end of the summer I did negotiate for a signing bonus, based on my previous grad degree. I was told by the partner I spoke to that she would look into the matter for me and get back to me -- which was fine. In the end, she came back with good news.
I didn't walk into her office thinking that I was entitled to anything -- and we had a whole discussion surrounding the issue before I even asked whether it was possible. I certainly didn't want to alienate the people I hoped to work with in the end.
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