Book to the Future
For the past year and a half, I had casually assumed that the reason we were not told in advance which books a professor will use in class was because of the technological inadequacies of Berkeley. But word from the Grapevine is that D.O. specifically told a student that they don't release the names of the books in advance to get us to buy the books from the Boalt bookstore.
As much I love to subsidize this school, I think this is probably one of the biggest transgressions on the part of the school against its students. Let me explain. On the macro level, I'm always suspect of anything that intentionally deprives me of choice. Yes, this liberal even applies that to all areas even though I think such a depravation is warranted in areas such as primary and secondary education. But this is not some overarching social program. It's just thuggish behavior on the part of the school. "Oh you want protection? We'll give you protection if you buy our goods." [replace "protection" with "legal education"].
On a more micro level, the school is royally fucking over its students. And I really hope Dean Edley and other administrators and/or faculty are reading this. Here is how the school's policy affects us. First, there is only a miniscule opportunity to purchase books below the listed price because the student store carries about as many used textbooks as the fingers on my right hand. And I'm not from Chernobyl. The reason for this is a vicious cycle. We can't purchase our books from online outlets such as Amazon or Half.com, but we're more than welcome to sell there. These outlets of course fetch better prices than the cookie crumbs the bookstore offers. I suspect the few Boalt students who are inclined to selling their books either find ways of directly selling to students using the beautiful flyering you see in the lockerroom or they sell online. I just haven't heard of anyone selling back to the bookstore. The important point is that the effect of this is to force us to pay the maximum price for our books. Some of us are independently wealthy. Most of us are not. With the strict budget allowance, I think it's essentially disgusting that the school would deprive its students the opportunity to bargain hunt and maybe save a few precious loan dollars for an extra cup of coffee during the 84-hour sleep deprived study-thon at the noise depot that is the Reading Room.
I have a few ideas, some serious, some not. For example, at the UCLA store website, you can access your list of books for a quarter based on your SID and last name. Similarly, you can see the books a class uses by clicking on textbook at that course's listing. UCLA law does not work any differently. While UCLA law is not a part of this system, they at least list the textbooks ahead of time online. I think professors should be mindful of the school's policy and e-mail the book(s) they intend to use in class ahead of time to those enrolled or waitlisted. Students can and should e-mail the professors ahead of time to get this information. I know that the Big Rakowski sent an e-mail with the textbook info for Tax II. Anyway, I'm fairly pissed off that the school would intentionally try to swindle its students. Am I a kook for being this pissed off?
As much I love to subsidize this school, I think this is probably one of the biggest transgressions on the part of the school against its students. Let me explain. On the macro level, I'm always suspect of anything that intentionally deprives me of choice. Yes, this liberal even applies that to all areas even though I think such a depravation is warranted in areas such as primary and secondary education. But this is not some overarching social program. It's just thuggish behavior on the part of the school. "Oh you want protection? We'll give you protection if you buy our goods." [replace "protection" with "legal education"].
On a more micro level, the school is royally fucking over its students. And I really hope Dean Edley and other administrators and/or faculty are reading this. Here is how the school's policy affects us. First, there is only a miniscule opportunity to purchase books below the listed price because the student store carries about as many used textbooks as the fingers on my right hand. And I'm not from Chernobyl. The reason for this is a vicious cycle. We can't purchase our books from online outlets such as Amazon or Half.com, but we're more than welcome to sell there. These outlets of course fetch better prices than the cookie crumbs the bookstore offers. I suspect the few Boalt students who are inclined to selling their books either find ways of directly selling to students using the beautiful flyering you see in the lockerroom or they sell online. I just haven't heard of anyone selling back to the bookstore. The important point is that the effect of this is to force us to pay the maximum price for our books. Some of us are independently wealthy. Most of us are not. With the strict budget allowance, I think it's essentially disgusting that the school would deprive its students the opportunity to bargain hunt and maybe save a few precious loan dollars for an extra cup of coffee during the 84-hour sleep deprived study-thon at the noise depot that is the Reading Room.
I have a few ideas, some serious, some not. For example, at the UCLA store website, you can access your list of books for a quarter based on your SID and last name. Similarly, you can see the books a class uses by clicking on textbook at that course's listing. UCLA law does not work any differently. While UCLA law is not a part of this system, they at least list the textbooks ahead of time online. I think professors should be mindful of the school's policy and e-mail the book(s) they intend to use in class ahead of time to those enrolled or waitlisted. Students can and should e-mail the professors ahead of time to get this information. I know that the Big Rakowski sent an e-mail with the textbook info for Tax II. Anyway, I'm fairly pissed off that the school would intentionally try to swindle its students. Am I a kook for being this pissed off?
Labels: BHSA, Legal Education Costs, Technology Rants
posted by Armen Adzhemyan at 12:09 PM
21 Comments:
You might be right, but in the long overdue (for this blog) words of Justin Timberlake, "cry me river." You're going to be rich in a couple years. What's $350 now? If it bothers you that much, dry your tears with the hand towel you took from the Reno HoJo and print out the cases and law review articles for free from westlaw.
Every time I've emailed a professor to ask which texts would be assigned for a class, I have received a prompt response. Have you had any different experience? I'm not calling you a kook for wanting the information up front, but "royally fucking over its students" might be a little strong.
"You're going to be rich in a couple years." Yeah, because no one who goes to Boalt is going to work for a public interest/non-profit organization. We're all going to be rolling in money.
I think it's crap.
From now on, I'm putting a moritorium on "You're going to be rich" type of arguments. Maybe, maybe not. I'm also going to be paying my share of taxes and repaying loans whose funds were used to pad the coffers of the school. If the school wants a share of my salary it can annoy me with phone calls once I graduate. Until then, I don't see any reason why it should shepherd us to the Goldberg Room like 5 year olds.
Whenever someone says "you're going to be rich anyway," hold tight to your wallet. It's the phrase of choice when someone is soaking law students.
Pay monopoly prices for bar review courses? You're going to be rich anyway.
Pay insane prices for textbooks that are mostly full of public domain materials? You're going to be rich anyway.
Make you take three years of grad schooling when two would suffice? You're going to be rich anyway.
Don't teach black letter law, so students have to buy endless supplements and commerical outlines? You're going to be rich anyway.
Set up a system where students average a debt load of something like $80,000? You're going to be rich anyway.
Then, you have to find that job that's going to make your rich anyway and you can't take that interesting policy job in the government or the public interest job.
I've heard the surcharge from the bookstore goes to the BHSA, not to Boalt.
why don't you take your complaints, stuff them in a sack, and take them to your local history grad student, oakland high school district math teacher, and/or ac bus driver. get some fucking perspective. and a sense of humor, while you are at it. that reno hojo bit was dy-no-mite!
The Boalt bookstore often charges above publishers' list price for books, actually.
Armen:
Don't you love how when someone leaves a comment that's abusive, it's inevitably from a jerk too scared to leave their real name? Of course, if I thought comments about the Reno Hojo were the height of humor, I might be hiding my face as well.
However "rich" one may be, it's never pleasant to feel that one is being ripped off. Some professors complain about the high price of textbooks, but there is a lot that universities could do to solve the problem if they wanted.
My first thought is that Armen is just easily riled, and this is just a minor annoyance that's easy enough to work around. No more. I still think it's not such a big deal in itself, but Boalt shouldn't do anything that creates this much bad blood for so little gain. A lot of Boalt's future hinges on the support of its alums. I hope they (we) won't be so short sighted that they (we) hold a grudge over this, but there's always a last straw. Added to the fact that Boalt does so many other things to anger its students, who knows? My latest irritation: how did Boalt miss the memo on the need for exhaust fans in bathrooms. It's like walking into an outhouse.
I was also under the impression that this was a "BHSA" thing not a Boalt thing, not that it makes much difference. I'm surprised none of the more-informed types haven't commented regarding this.
Is the bookstore open this coming Sunday?
What's Reno Hojo?
By tradition, you may deposit your money in the Goldberg Room the Sunday before classes begin. Reno HoJo = Reno Howard Johnson.
I'm also curious whether the bookstore will be open Sunday. Can folks who are on campus now or have been recently enough to visit the bookstore let us know the books for some major classes -- Admin, Evidence, etc . . .
Re: the BHSA funding argument.
With the money we could save on buying books online or through other alternate sources, most of us would be able to afford to pony up higher membership dues for the various Boalt Hall student groups.
Thanks for clarifying that Mr. Chavez. I will be buying all of my books at the bookstore because I appreciate having a vibrant community of student groups at Boalt. If it costs me a few extra bucks, it's well worth it. What else could I spend the money on that's of more worth? One crazy night at the Bear's Lair or Down Low?
Go BHSA!
The painfully obvious hole in Ms. Chavez's argument is that some of us do not belong to any or few student organizations and do not feel compelled to support that which does not benefit us. Belonging to a student organization is a matter of choice, as should be supporting such an organization financially.
What the BHSA actually does, besides putting together the BLF Auction, is as much of a mystery to me as ancient Egyptian embalming rituals. What exactly does the money I contribute support? Keggers in the courtyard? The forced support of such intransparent and patently useless organizations is hardly worth paying two times the price i could get online for textbooks. You, Ms. Chavez, might be independently wealthy, but the $500 I save will go to pay for my groceries for a couple months.
The much bigger hole in your argument is that the person you refer to as "Ms. Chavez" is actually Mr. Chavez. And I seriously doubt you're going to save $500 from screwing the rest of us.
"What the BHSA actually does, besides putting together the BLF Auction, is as much of a mystery to me as ancient Egyptian embalming rituals."
Umm...there's a bright, shining 'duh' moment in this post. Could it be that BHSA and BLF are different organizations? Which doesn't even approach the short-sighted and misguided idea that having a vibrant community life around one does not benefit an individual who chooses not to partake.
And ancient Egyptian embalming rituals aren't really that mysterious. Just put some vital organs in different jars, leave the body to dry out in the desert air, and you're done.
Dear Ms. Painfully Obvious Hole,
I am very sorry you are so bitter. I understand that it may be hard to see the money you pay out for you education improve parts of Boalt that others benefit from more than you do. I hope it doesn't make you even more unhappy if I point out that the same is true of your tuition payment, and you don't have the option of avoiding that charge by shopping at Amazon. Please take heart. There are many opportunities at Boalt that you have to choose from. I know it is sad that you cannot take advantage of all of them. I hope you will learn to be happy that you are at a school that uses its resources to provide so wide a range of opportunities that you have the tools to be successful whatever your background or your goals or your interests may be.
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