80 Days Later
So UCLA, which had its finals week this past week (and congrats to my brother and the rest of the class of 06) already has some of its grades posted. That is, less than a week after the end of finals the grades are up. Meanwhile, the registrar's office seems to be working feverishly from a Siberian Gulag to to get our grades up. To quote Krusty the Klown, "What's the friggin hold up?"
And yes, I know the policy is to have grades by mid July, about 2 months after finals. I will bet ANY school administrator my degree that I can single-handedly grade every single in class exam from Boalt in 2 months. Just give me a rubric and a red pen.
Also I'd like to offer a correction. I previously referred to a senior partner at my firm who reads the blog. It has since come to my attention that the partner is in fact a sort of a midlevel type. I also want to send my condolences in his direction. I meant to do so in person, but the midlevel/senior flap distracted me.
And yes, I know the policy is to have grades by mid July, about 2 months after finals. I will bet ANY school administrator my degree that I can single-handedly grade every single in class exam from Boalt in 2 months. Just give me a rubric and a red pen.
Also I'd like to offer a correction. I previously referred to a senior partner at my firm who reads the blog. It has since come to my attention that the partner is in fact a sort of a midlevel type. I also want to send my condolences in his direction. I meant to do so in person, but the midlevel/senior flap distracted me.
posted by Armen Adzhemyan at 6:37 PM
66 Comments:
C'mon Armen, it's not like we need those grades to influence any important decisions this summer.
Grades were due from professors last Friday (the 16th) -- so that gives you some idea what is causing the delay.
For an ignorant 0L like me, can you spell out what the deal is with late grades? Is this a Boalt-specific thing? How does it disadvantage you? As a 1L/2L/3L? Thanks.
on a different note: there are updates to the course listings for the fall, including some new offerings that look pretty interesting.
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/students/courses/updates/course_updates_f06.pdf
My understanding re class rank is that Dean Ortiz will send out another email once grades come out telling us to email her if we'd like her to calculate our class rank for clerkship applications. So just hold your horses.
Speaking of UCLA, it looks like Jordan Farmar is gone for good to the NBA. Condolences to the UCLA fans. But it will be nice to see if the Jewish Jordan can also work his magic in the NBA.
Grades? At this point I'd be happy if I could remember what classes I actually took.
10:41---
This is a Boalt-specific thing. Even other large public law schools (like UCLA, Hastings, etc.) have had most of their grades for a few weeks already. In fact, at my firm this Summer there are probably about a dozen different schools represented, and the Boalties are the ONLY ones who have not had most of their grades for several weeks already.
In terms of the important decisions that Tom referred to, this really only applies to rising 3Ls, because we need to figure out whether or not to apply to clerkships, and how good a chance we have of getting one. So basically, we have about 10 days from the time we get our grades to figure out the entire clerkship process, whereas students from other schools have a couple months. I'm sure that isn't an advantage or anything.
Generally speaking I love Boalt, but this is one area where I'm sure most of us can agree that Boalt has a huge problem.
You all have nothing to complain about -- I graduated from Yale 2 years ago. I received my grade for contracts 1.5 years after taking the class. Now *THAT* is a delay.
Thanks, 9:34. Very helpful.
I've been thru a lot of grad school, and I've never experienced anything near the delay in grade posting that Boalt inflicts on its students. I also have the solution: give profs two weeks to grade their exams. Period.
You are not disadvantaged in the clerkship application process by our late grades. Just get everything lined up for clerkships before you figure out your grades. Yes, you might have "wasted" some time if your grades turn out to be abominable, but nothing is keeping you from getting ready ahead of time. I can't imagine that one semester's grades will actually make the whole difference in whether you apply for clerkships (perhaps which courts you apply to, on the margin). Sounds to me like you're just using late grades as an excuse to procrastinate!
I'm in the situation where I had some profs that I really liked last semester and who I got to know a bit. I'm planning to apply to clerkships but I have to wait until I get my grades to know if I should ask them for recommendations. That sucks and I would call it a disadvantage in the process.
you can ask them for your grades now... they have turned them in already, so they should know what they gave you. or at least, you can ask if they feel comfortable recommending you.
1:24 - You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
First, one semester's grades can dramatically affect your rank and therefore your marketability; I know people who have gone from top 5% to 15% in one semester.
Second, yesh, nothing's stopping students from starting early - and generating dozens of excess applications for clerkships one might not really want, or might not be remotely eligible for. And remember, the more application packets you put together, the greater your chances of making a clerical error that gets some of your applications binned. Trust me, no one who's serious about clerkships is using Boalt's bullshit delays as an excuse to procrastinate.
Finally, the real question is why is Boalt unable to deliver grades in a timely fashion when all the other UC law schools (not to mention Stanford) can? Some professors seem to easily finish grading exams months ahead of Boalt's deadline (for example, Rakowski, grades available to students on June 1). And even if it does take some busy professors a while to grade papers, what's with the one month delay between grade submissions and abailability on bearfacts?
In sum, amen Armen.
I'll be honest--I wish I had my grades too. I think it's ridiculous that our profs get more than a MONTH to grade our exams. But I want to know because I just want to know--not because it's going to make a difference this summer or for clerkship applications. I think you're kidding yourself if you think one semester is going to make or break you w/ clerkships, so if you were planning to apply, get it all ready. I agree w/ 1:24 that it just sounds like an excuse to procrastinate and for the ungrateful Boalt-bashing by certain Boalt students that seems to go on way too much in the Comments in this blog and on other websites. Have any of these people complained directly to Dean O, Edley, Bundy, Shelanski, or any of the administrative-type people? Bitching about the Registrar is just too easy, as is whining without doing anything to change the status quo.
As someone who does "knows what I'm talking about" (graduatd from Boalt, currently clerking, had to deal with the late grades), the late grades thing really isn't that big of a deal for clerkship applications. As if one semester's grades are going to completely change your "application stategy" that much. If you're waiting for a grade to choose a recommender, obviously email the professor and ask what your grade is. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you probably shouldn't be using that professor in the first place (I did it, and it worked out fine).
That being said, there is no good reason to allow professors so much time to grade.
I can't wait to see how some of you will freak out when all of your grades aren't posted at the designated time, because some professors are notoriously late graders (i.e. Fried).
Good luck to all of you with the clerkship applications.
Don't forget that you're also going to have to wait several days after grades come out before the class rankings will be ready. Last summer, the class of 06 received class rankings shortly before judges' lists had to be submitted to faculty services. Several of us expressd our frustrations about this to Dean O, and we were told that the registrar's office was working as quickly as possible.
To deal with the time crunch, I recommend preparing a "best case scenario" and a "worst case scenario" list of judges (although, as others have indicated, your second semester grades aren't likely to make or break you). Also, if you're worried about recommendations, it is perfectly fine to contact professors, explain that you're applying for clerkships, and ask for your grade.
Also try having a life and developing a sense of self that does not hinge on grades. That might help too!
Grades matter an aweful lot to transfer students who's rank is based on only a single Boalt semester's worth of grades. Shifts as much as 15% or more certainly seem possible in such a situation. This means that someone can go from highly competitive to totally out of it.
Perhaps 2:48 should spell check his/her clerkship applications so they're not too aweful.
Don't forget who's/whose. Less tickytack...let's just remove any discussion of transferring from Boalt as a reason for wanting your grades early. That's like trying to figure out the tallest midget in the circus. Really if your goal is to use Boalt as a feeder school, I can't say that I really truly want the Registrar's office to bend over backwards for you.
What's wrong with Boalt bashing - there's plenty to bash. And administrators, some of whom troll your boards, read the posts, so maybe complaints will do some good.
As for this "ungrateful" accusation that's thrown around is ridiculous. Why should I be so grateful to be at Boalt, as opposed to Michigan, Columbia, etc.? Why shouldn't Boalt be equally grateful to have the students it has?
Also, the self-indulgent delusion that grades don't matter and all Boalties are perfect little snowflakes of brilliance just because they got in to Boalt is stupid. Grades matter, not just to get jobs, clerkships, etc., but also because they measure something - they measure a student's ability to figure out what the game is, play it, and succeed. Lawyering is adversarial and competitive. So is life. Man up. The same people who hold this delusion are probably the same people who are always going on about gratitude - because they are grateful that they are going to a school whose name will enable them to mask their own mediocrity.
PS - it's a blog post 2:48 - you look like an idiot when all you do is smugly point out someone's typo in an informal medium.
Hey 6:21
Grateful probably isn't the right word, but I am much happier at Boalt than I would be somewhere else. There are a lot of things that Boalt should do better, including this grading nonsense. Personally, I understand people getting frustrated and (rightly) pointing out a (minor) problem.
But if you really aren't happy with what you get out of going to Boalt, "man up" (are you serious??) and transfer out. Please. You'd fit right in at Michigan. You can take the bullshit attitute with you. You know what I mean. The the part where you get all into the glory of the fight, life is adversity and therefore adversarial, winning is beating the other guy down. That bullshit. Are you really even at Boalt?
6:21, I think it is more important, perhaps critical, to let the administrators know that the vast majority of students at Boalt are ready and able to bash those who come to Boalt to use its reputation to get whatever legal career path they want, but always seem to be able to find faults with the school. Woe is me/I...I go to a public school and now I'm paying what others are paying...Save me oh Lord, my classmates believe competition is bad...oh forces of market economy and law & ec, take me away from this inner circle of hell.
Cry me a river. What is it with this psychology of taking a minor annoyance and turning it into the greatest tragedy to befall the State of California? Yeah it's kind of annoying that our grades seem to be bound by the 27th Amendment. But let's not go nuts and claim that this is just another symptom of the disorders afflicting the sick man of East Bay.
I love Boalt. With all my heart, actually. But like a wayward child, I try to sometimes point it in the right direction. And in the case of soccer, that direction is the opponent's goal. Thought I'd mention that in case the U.S. National team reads this blog.
I <3 7:09.
I think Boalt is grateful to have the students it has. With some, ahem, exceptions.
I <33333 Wikipedia.
I want to start a petition to change Boalt's ranking policy. I want everyone to be given their exact numerical rank X/Y. In addition, I want all of the class lists to list the students by last name / rank, and I want profs to be required to call on people by that information. For example... "Mr. Fletcher #32 can you please tell me why past consideration is no consideration?", or, "Ms. Parma #114 from whom did O'Connor borrow her opinion in Marsh?"
I think that class would be much more interesting, and people might acrually prepare a little bit. At the least, we would know both who all of the gunners, and self agrandising losers are.
What's with all of the sexism in this thread? "Man Up"? Hypothetically, MR. Fletcher is #32 while MS. Parma is #114? Boalt is about equality. 6:21 should be "personing up" and Mr. Fletcher and Ms. Parma should be the same rank.
Boalt's professors should get their act together and grade faster. We can blame the registrar all we want, but, ultimately, the decision to let professors have so long to turn in the grades was probably perpetrated by the Boalt faculty. As people have posted on this board in years past, the ABA has recommended guidelines that say that grades for a class should be posted no later than 1 month after students have taken the exam. Boalt violates this ABA recommendation every year. It's total BS.
The gap between June 24 and July 11, though, might be the registrar and UC Berkeley's fault.
Anyway, there is no question in my mind that, if incoming 3L's got their grades earlier in the summer, they'd be better positioned to apply for clerkships. All you folks who rationalize that the last semester of grades doesn't matter to the process are full of useless insight. Having those grades and the rank completes a significant part of your application and gets your ass in gear to apply for a clerkship.
Boalt professors should stop bitching about how too few Boalt students get clerkships. Professors' lackluster, untimely reporting of grades doesn't help the process. Dean Ortiz's ridiculously slow and inefficient means of reporting rank also does students a disservice. Ortiz is also notorious for not following the guidelines in the academic rules about rank, as she witholds information from students to which they have a right to know. We'll leave it at that.
Students from other schools know where they stand vis a vis clerkships and are moving ahead quite swimmingly. Even if you naively think that grades shouldn't matter in the process of deciding whether to clerk and where to apply, you must concede that having the grades offers significant closure and helps a student focus on the future rather than the past.
here here
Or is it Hear Hear?
I'm sure all the people who feel so strongly are doing more to change the system than just complaining in the Comments of this website, even if some members of the Administration do read it. To my mind, the best first step would be to pressure the registrar--data entry is really not that hard, and it shouldn't take more than two or three days to enter all the grades. I've heard that central campus causes part of the hold-up, but I know people from other departments don't have this ridiculous wait. Of course, the rudeness and mean spirited-ness of the Registrar's office are legendary, so hopefully speed wouldn't compromise their already-lackluster accuracy and efficiency... but honestly, couldn't they just hire a couple of undergrads to temp for a day or two to get it done?? Hello Student Services office--this is obviously a major issue to a lot of students, so maybe you all could do something?
But regarding clerkships, I think it's been pretty adequately covered in the above comments that if you want your grade earlier, like now, just email the prof. You have a perfectly good reason to want to know, and while there seems to be a lot of Boalt-hate going around, I hope we can all agree that we have generally very nice and understanding professors.
I don't mind the month professors get to grade (though we don't get even a week off from class to prepare for exams). I'm more troubled by the June 16 to July 11 time lag. In this day in age, it should take a few hours to run a program for the grades of 900 students. I remember in the crappy promo materials we received how Boalt boasted of having the most caring administrators. I sure haven't seen it from the Registrar's office. And I'm convinced that Tele-BEARS discrminates against non-UC undergrads in setting up Boalt registration times. No matter what the Registrar claims, I had all my classes second year with non-UC students because of my crappy sign-up times. We need to stand up and do something to create some accountability. This is a school that left its main library reading room empty for months instead of borrowing some chairs. I'm embarrassed by the administration of the place.
About Telebears...
It took me a while to figure this out, but at best my theory is the one that fits all the facts.
1. Telebears appointments are based on SID numbers.
2. An SID is assigned whenever someone applies to UC Berkeley.
3. Those who applied/attended UC Berkeley as undergrads have a lower SID number. For example, mine begins with 14 because I applied to Cal as undergrad (though I chose wisely to attend the better UC down south).
4. Connect the dots.
One last comment about clerkships - as one of the previous posters commented, there is some grumbling among faculty that too few Boalties get clerkships. Chicago has a "clerkship committee." It's my admittedly incomplete understanding that the clerkship committee selects promising students and promotes the hell out of them. Why not something similar for Boalt? It might really help put Boalties into more and "better" clerkships.
Nice theory, Armen. While we're at it, what are we doing to stop the massive fee increases that are coming? Arnold came out publicly and said tuition wasn't changing for the undergrads, but he didn't say anything about us. Regents of course meet in the summer when we're not there to fight back. Cal. can't say we have a budget crisis when the state has a surplus.
I don't think the SID theory works all that well. I got a registration time my 2d semester 1L year at 5:30 pm despite having a SID beginning with '11'. Given that I was about six years older than most of my class (going on the average), I really doubt that registration was based on SIDs.
But, I will say, that my 1L year was the only time I had a truly awful registration time.
One other factor that no one has mentioned is adjunct professors. People with day jobs cannot just crank through exams like our professors should be able to. And, to my knowledge, Boalt has more adjuncts than most of our peer schools.
Max Power,
BHSA already has several standing student committees that could have ask the Registrar to get her ass in gear. One that comes to mind is the curriculum commitee. Unfortunately for you, BHSA tends not to appoint jackasses and haters to serious commitees. But you might get in touch with the current student members and send them a suggestion.
Don't be hate'in Max!!?
seriously irregardless Ricky, Its my body and iall do wha I want.
Some of you rising 2L's might seriously consider transferring to higher ranked schools for better student services and a more humane registrar. You still have time! If you kicked the competition's ass at Boalt (I'm talking HH-city and dodging P-edestrian behavior), then Yale, Stanford, and HLS will take you seriously. They don't care about your LSAT anymore - they don't have to report transfer LSAT scores to US News. So if you're one of the Boalt kids with the mega-high undergraduate GPA (from a good college in a respectable major), with a lower LSAT but with glorious Boalt grades, consider writing your ticket out of Boalt High. That'll also send a striking message to any professor or administrator at Boalt who doesn't want to see the school lose its excellent students. I don't have the glorious grades you have, but, if I did, I might consider making a move.
Don't worry about "loving Boalt" and "having loyalty to it." I think Ortiz and some of the other administrators who lord over this school don't really give a rat's ass about the school's most promising students. Ortiz is loyal to certain egalitarian ideals and causes and managing the crisis-case students of law school. Administrators like Ortiz and the registrar care about meeting low baselines and keeping the ship afloat. Other law schools have administrators that balance promoting excellence with providing a fair, convenient experience for all.
Or you could stay here, join a committee, and fight to improve Boalt.
BTW, I applaud those on this thread that rightly point out that, despite the fact that you strongly criticize certain Boalt policies, you still like the school and want it to improve. We would be doing the school a great disservice if we excuse its shortcomings. Edley once said that he wants Boalt, not just to be an excellent school, but to be a preeminent one. It is our responsibility to criticize the school's policies and to spur it to improve.
What role does Dean Ortiz play in the Tele-BEARS registration fiasco and the lag in returning grades? I've always had excellent dealings with her, found her to be very approachable.
to 6/23/2006 11:19 AM - boalt does have a clerkship committee too, but they push students they know and like, just like all other professors. i have top grades but i'm seriously afraid to apply this year looking at the clerkships the top students got, or didnt get, last year. If you look at who got what, kids who knew or worked for the profs on the clerkship committee got the good clerkships, and nobody else did.
10:13, welcome to the real world
There's a clerkship committee at Boalt? Who are the faculty members and how do students get involved? As a recent Boalt alum and former clerk, I had no idea there was such a thing. I think that might say it all...
BHSA appoints the students.. the faculty members are the ones who talk to everyone at the big info meetings. They usu. get the politically networked ones like liu to head it up. Liu's two favorites are clerking for reinhart and tatel next year, and they didnt even have top ranks after their 2L year.
that's not really a clerkship committee - that's more of a cabal. if the committee is some little-known old boy network, then it does Boalt a disservice
It's not an old boy network, but it functions the same way.
Nothing that increases the number of Boalties in clerkships is likely to do Boalt a disservice. The present system doesn't sound terribly equitable, but personally I'm not convinced that's a big problem. At least if you believe, as I do, that any slackers or others who are truly undeserving will get weeded out long before they sniff any of the big clerkships. Being someone's favorite doesn't make them more deserving, but it doesn't make them less deserving either. For those of you who are about to start whining about how someone with better grades got left out, don't bother. Having another HH or two doesn't make someone more deserving either. You could imagine a system that is more impartial (how about something totally random like lottery), but I don't see any realistic option that tracks merrit. So if Boalt is maximizing the number of its students who get clerkships, it's doing exactly what it should be doing. Quit complaining just because you aren't lucky enough to be Prof. Liu's type.
Speaking of equity, remember the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations" that showed up in Bush's speech? Was that really original? I heard the speech writer being given credit for writing it, but I had assumed that it was borrowed from something. If not, nice work, I guess. Anyone know if he lifted it, and if so, from where?
It's fine, and well-known, that informally, you need to impress certain well-connected professors if you want to increase your chances of a clerkship (e.g., Liu, Choper, et al.) - but that's not the type of thing you can really call a committee designed to put a maximum number of qualified Boalties into clerkships. A committee interested in maximizing boalties in clerkships would be well-publicized to generate as large a pool of interested boalties as possible, from which to select the (20? 30?)most "qualified" (however defined) boalties to promote the hell out of.
it probably hurts more top students than it helps, because judges assume that boalt profs are more co-ordinated than they really are. When a top student doesnt happen to fit liu or choper's criteria, judges mistakenly assume teh boalt committee doesnt support them. Many top students in the year ahead of us didnt get clerkships, or good clerkships. It would be much fairer if the well connected profs weren't allowed to work like a secret society.
I can't believe we having a freakin' cabal divvying up crucial recommendations and thus clerkships! I hear Bayern didn't even apply or interview, they basically just told him he'd be clerking on the 10th Circuit (and can I just say, Bayern is doing us all a disservice. Former CLR EICs who were in the top of their classes clerked for feeder judges and then the SC, as he should do. I doesn't really matter if he's not that interested, he should stop being so self-centered).
But, yeah, I knew CLR editors in the top of their class the year before me who did not get clerkships and someone in my class who was in the top 5% (no Ps) who did not get a clerkship. Clerkships are extremely important not only for the individual students but for the school's reputation and impact on the progress of the law, things Boalt should be taking seriously. We can tell everyone how progressive we are all day long, and we can create new thinktanks and centers, but, at the end of the day, putting a Boaltie instead of a Chicago economist or Columbia corporate drone into the halls of power is what is really going to make a difference. There is simply no excuse for the school's squandering of its opportunities to get qualified graduates into clerkships.
9:10, your heart is in the right place but your facts are wrong. Boalt professors don't simply divvy up clerkships. To start with, I know Shawn Bayern and I know for a fact that he sent out regular applications to approx. 25 judges. Nobody really knows why he didn't get called by the feeder judges, cuz he was first in his class and CLR EIC, and he wrote friggin' books before law school.
Sometimes it's just random.
If you're telling us that you think all the Boalt spots for feeder clerks were taken by other students because professors divvied those up, you could be correct. But I never heard Shawn blame Boalt or Boalt professors, and there's no way that Boalt said to someone like Shawn: "You're clerking on the 10th Circuit"
And anyway that wouldn't hurt Boalt because the same number of students would be clerking for feeders anyway. Why shouldn't professors choose the students they want to recommend? If the system is an old boy's networ, it's not the professors fault for using it to the advantage of Boalt students.
9:10 - you're another one who should have gone to Michigan. Talk all you want about how you think the system should be fixed, but don't get on a blog anonymously and talk smack about someone. Even if what you said were true, it would be out of line. Now that I think about it, I bet you aren't from Boalt. You probably are some Michigan loser who found out that Bayern got the clerkship you wanted and decided to talk shit on the Boalt blog. Whatever. Hope you had your fun.
Well, OK, who are these politically connected profs who seem to send a lot of students on to top judges?
I've heard Liu and Choper so far. Who else? I guess Willie Fletcher is synonymous with all of that stuff / is a master of the Boalt universe.
But every time someone on this blog rights that something is "well-known" or "everyone knows informally..." I brace myself to feel completely out of the loop.
I'd guess there's maybe two types: the youngish profs who recently clerekd at SCOTUS (e.g. Molly), and then super-old-timers who know everyone in the country. That's about all I can surmise. I wish someone here would make a list of the "top 10 Boalt profs you should say hello to in Zeb to clerk somewhere nice." Or something more concise.
9:10 -- Shawn Bayern is one of the least self=centered people I know, and he has done plenty for Boalt already. What's self=centered about choosing the career path that makes you happiest, rather than choosing the career path that others tell you to pursue?
Also, I had virtually no connections to judges or the "clerkship committee," and my recommenders weren't well connected, yet I still managed to do fine in the clerkship process. Every judge is looking for that one special snowflake, and the resulting process is randomized and unpredictable.
9:10 here. I know it's not always easy to detect sarcasm delivered electronically so I'll just say that I was completely joking about Bayern. For all of his accomplishments he is by far the humblest person I have ever met; he is always self-deprecating and is one of the few people who, when given the opportunity to do anything, has chosen to do what he wants to do, what would make him most happy, and not take the most coveted / prestigious option just because he can.
And as for the cabal, that was also fairly tongue in cheek. What I am serious about is that Boalt should have a committee that ensures the faculty and the administration does everything in its power to maximize the number of Boalt students who obtain clerkships. Who gets the spots with the feeder judges, well, I guess that is up to who knows who, which I still think is unfortunate but which is part of a larger problem outside of Boalt's control.
So, when do the professors actually know our grades and can associate them with our names rather than our exam numbers? When the professors hand the grades into the registrar, either early or on-time, does the registrar give them the class list and let them crack the code? I know that if there are ties, the registrar will reveal the names of the tied students to the professors so that they can break the ties. But what about the rest of the students. There's a theory out there that the professors, for the most part, only learn the actual identities of the students (and not just from guessing) on the day when grades are released to us. What do you think?
No, they get back lists of exam grades corresponding to students and their numbers. Some of the profs. adjust your grade depending on what you did in class. So if a bunch of people scored near one another on an exam, the prof. will adjust upward and downward. Then the prof. turns in his/her final grades.
Unfortunately, the Boalt rumor mill seems to be alive and well on this blog. As someone who went through the clerkship process last year, I can tell you that a lot of things in this thread are totally inaccurate, particularly the part about a cabal by various Boalt profs to get certain favored students into top clerkships.
First of all, I also know Shawn quite well and I therefore know he had some fabulous interviews during the clerkship process, including an interview with Guido Calabresi, arguably the most competitive judge in the country. Unfortunately, none of these interviews turned into an offer except for his interview with Judge Harts from the 10th Circuit. I don't see how the fact that this was his only offer could be Boalt's fault. Shawn was the only student in the clerkship process with the strong backing of Mel Eisenberg, arguably a more well-know and well-respected Professor than even Jesse Choper, and neither the Boalt "cabal" nor his amazing grades ensured him a top spot.
All any school and any set of recommenders can do is get you in the door. After that, it's up to you to win the judge over at the interview. Although it is very helpful to have strong letters of recommendation from well-know professors, you have to have the complete package in order to get the most competitive clerkships -- top grades, top recommendations from professors and employers, an interesting set of experiences and accomplishments, and the ability to interview well. And even if you have those things there is an element of randomness to the whole process.
My grades were strong but not amazing and I still managed to get a good, albeit not great clerkship. Just as easily I could have ended up without one, but I made sure I did everything I could to get a clerkship, and I didn't rely on Boalt to do anything for me. I think that most of the students who did well in the process really hustled to make sure they got the interviews and offers that they did.
On that note, the biggest lesson I learned during the clerkship process is that it is up to you, and no one else, to do everything you can to get yourself a good clerkship: you have to do the research necessary to figure out which judges to apply to, you have to approach professors for help and support, you have to seek out former clerks for advice about the process, and you have to make sure every i is dotted and every t is crossed from the beginning of the application process to the end. You can't rely on anyone else to do that work for you, including anyone at Boalt.
Good luck everybody!
We really need a new thread.
Yep, as a Boaltie who clerked for a feeder judge a few years back, I can say that there is a huge random element to the process. This is not confined to Boalt; a recent EIC of the Yale Law Journal did not get a feeder clerkship (or even any clerkship at all until well into the interview season) despite being, by all accounts, brilliant and a wonderful person.
Having recommendations from well-known professors really helps, but no professor can "get" you a clerkship with a judge - in part because every prominent judge will get dozens or even hundreds of applications from students with glowing recommendations from top professors at top schools. Having excellent credentials is a necessary but not sufficient condition; beyond that, you have to 1) click with the judge; 2) be in the right place at the right time and 3) usually, have a certain amount of moxie. Unfortunately, if you don't know how to promote yourself aggressively (and how to time your interviews!), it's much harder to get an offer.
But for all that, everyone with decent grades and a desire to clerk should apply; not everyone gets matched perfectly, but things basically work out more often than not. And it's a great job.
What grades do you need for federal district court clerkship within the 9th or 2d circuits? Top 10 percent? Top third?
Dude,
Certain professors can definitely get you a big-time clerkship. If Larry Tribe or Cass Sunstein wants you to get ahead, you will get ahead. End of story. You could even be a total douchebag and still get a big-time clerkship. Law schools are full of douchebag professors who were "made" by Larry Tribe or one of the other few big shot professors.
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