Liveblogging Charlie Rose
As if things weren't dorky enough post-PACER, I'll sacrifice my Corporations reading to now live-blog Charlie Rose, with Sandra Day O'Connor and Justice Stephen Breyer, for the hour.
12:02. Charlie Rose's adorable concealed twang does an amazing job making "Breyer" into one syllable.
12:03. This evening's theme is the independence of the judiciary, at both the federal and state levels. Recording of a conversation done at Georgetown.
12:04 "Every American should be interested in [an independent judiciary]." SDO. She analogizes to other countries, not blessed with such impartial judiciaries (which Charlie also makes into hardly more than one syllable).
12:07 Breyer is talking about complex polling... of Americans... of how they feel about judges... 2/3 say judges are fair, 1/3 say judges are "politicians in robes". That data is old... now the number is 1/2 and 1/2... this growing lack of faith in the judiciary troubles Breyer. "The people made the Constitituion, and they can unmake it." SDO adds that an independent and fair judiciary is critical to protecting our precious, precious constitutional rights.
12:11 Discussion of the controversy of how to pick judges, from state elections to "advice and consent" nominations before the Senate. Breyer is untroubled by presidents who enshrine their legacy in their judicial picks. Esp. since judges tend to betray their appointers. A funndy story about Teddy R. and OWH is told involving backbones and bananas. Breyer picks out state court elections for judges with the need to raise campaign funds as the crisis. SDO agrees - the money comes from the lawyers who appear before the judges. SDO praises Missouri, which makes appointments from a bipartisan commission list with limited terms and periodic retention elections.
12:15 SDO is also "very concerned" at the federal level about the portrayals of judges as "activists". "There's a lot of that rhetoric at the federal level these days... it's coming from members of Congress and others who agree with them... That's the accusation... it troubles me... It troubles me when it is followed by threats of retribution." SDO gives examples of resolutions calling for inspectors general to report to Congress on judicial activities. SDO points out efforts to impeach judges who cite foreign case law. SDO also cites jurisdiction stripping for pledge, marriage, abortion, etc. (so maybe last week's Fed Cts. class was useful...).
12:18 SDO, grandmotherly, strong, wise. Breyer... booooring. Seriously, SDO just yawned. Yawned. Again! Breyer, pass the gavel!
12:20: Breyer says we should push this at all levels. Why don't kids read the Constitituion in civics? At age 14? (14? Breyer, have you been to a CA public school?). Wow, CR: "I don't see what that has to do with the present argument..." Breyer returns to discussing the Court, and its civility. No one has ever yelled in conference, not even over Bush v. Gore. Breyer explains that if people understood how the courts worked, people would not get so worked up about judges because they'd know how judges really work to solve problems using the law.
12:25 SDO outraged by "jail for judges" in South Dakota. CR: do you blame the media? SDO: I don't necessarily blame the media. ... SDO wants to raise the profile of the threat to a fair and impartial judiciary. She wants people to understand how fundamentally we need neutral courts.
12:27 CR: judges are red meat in politics now. SDO links this to violence against judges. Huh? I guess she can't be right everytime.
12:30 Breyer discusses Cooper v. Aaron, and the need for paratroopers to integrate the schools. Breyer is so happy now that despite all the hard controversial cases, there "are no longer troops on the streets of America." People in America now realize "a rule of law is superior to a rule of force." Breyer worries that if we come into a world where people think judges are poltiicans in robes, "bad things can flow from that" and respect for the rule of law will deteriorate. SDO: "We're on that track if we don't engage in that debate. You see proposals in Congress to strip jurisdiction from the federal courts based on subject matter... this seems to me a strange step... threats to curtail the budget... threats to impeach a judge... these are amazing propositions."
12:34 SDO weighs in on Schiavo. Breyer recuses, since it may come up again. SDO discusses the litigation history, the special law in Congress requiring federal review. "That was most unusual, a law for a specific case." (not so unusual, see Woodbridge v. United States, an old patent case).
12:36: CR brings up Bush v. Gore, claiming it was a political decision. SDO answers much quicker than she has earlier. She says the court made two legal decisions, "you could characterize it that way. I don't." Breyer is staring at his hands, forming a triangle under his nose. SDO points to later recounts which support that Bush won. CR moves on, no comment from Breyer.
12:42 CR: Are you both pragmatists? SDO: I'm just a cowgirl, so I had to be practical. Pragmatist. Problem solver. Breyer: he speaks of Madison, and dialogues with him, and BREYER RAISES HIS VOICE! THe ghost of Madison wants him to be PRACTICAL! Wow, I'm awake again. Breyer: "Am I always right? No. Do I think I'm right? Yes!" SDO: "I just tried to address the cases as they came... I did the best I could with the cases that came my way."
12:45 CR: "What's the best thing a Supreme Court justice can learn to do? Count to five."
12:47 The parties discuss the number of women clerks on the Court. A lot of hemming, and hopes for a return to more women clerks.
12:47 CR: Original intent? Is it a living document, Breyer? "Yes, it's true." "Look to the values or purposes of the clause or statute, and the consequences. ... I spend more time on purposes, values, and consequences [than precedent, text]." The Framers of the Commerce Clause did not know the internet, nor did the Framers of the First Amendment.
12:50 SDO "The genius of the Constitution was that it was couched in such general terms that it could survive for 200 years.... [new things] must be adapted into 'reasonableness' in the 4th, "cruel and unusual" in the 8th." Both Breyer and SDO agree we need to look to the intent of the Framers. "What were they basically intending... they didn't know about the internet... but they wanted to protect free speech!" says Breyer.
12:52 Criticisms of the court? SDO, Breyer: too expensive, too slow. Inaccessible to laymen. It's not "consumer-friendly" says Breyer. SDO: Litigation is too expensive. We've got a real problem.
12:54 SDO and Breyer go gaga for Roscoe Pound and some discussion he had with the Court. Burger had one too. Wow, wasn't expecting to hear Roscoe Pound's name.
The conference this talk is part of starts shortly.
"Thank you for joining us, we'll see you next time."
12:02. Charlie Rose's adorable concealed twang does an amazing job making "Breyer" into one syllable.
12:03. This evening's theme is the independence of the judiciary, at both the federal and state levels. Recording of a conversation done at Georgetown.
12:04 "Every American should be interested in [an independent judiciary]." SDO. She analogizes to other countries, not blessed with such impartial judiciaries (which Charlie also makes into hardly more than one syllable).
12:07 Breyer is talking about complex polling... of Americans... of how they feel about judges... 2/3 say judges are fair, 1/3 say judges are "politicians in robes". That data is old... now the number is 1/2 and 1/2... this growing lack of faith in the judiciary troubles Breyer. "The people made the Constitituion, and they can unmake it." SDO adds that an independent and fair judiciary is critical to protecting our precious, precious constitutional rights.
12:11 Discussion of the controversy of how to pick judges, from state elections to "advice and consent" nominations before the Senate. Breyer is untroubled by presidents who enshrine their legacy in their judicial picks. Esp. since judges tend to betray their appointers. A funndy story about Teddy R. and OWH is told involving backbones and bananas. Breyer picks out state court elections for judges with the need to raise campaign funds as the crisis. SDO agrees - the money comes from the lawyers who appear before the judges. SDO praises Missouri, which makes appointments from a bipartisan commission list with limited terms and periodic retention elections.
12:15 SDO is also "very concerned" at the federal level about the portrayals of judges as "activists". "There's a lot of that rhetoric at the federal level these days... it's coming from members of Congress and others who agree with them... That's the accusation... it troubles me... It troubles me when it is followed by threats of retribution." SDO gives examples of resolutions calling for inspectors general to report to Congress on judicial activities. SDO points out efforts to impeach judges who cite foreign case law. SDO also cites jurisdiction stripping for pledge, marriage, abortion, etc. (so maybe last week's Fed Cts. class was useful...).
12:18 SDO, grandmotherly, strong, wise. Breyer... booooring. Seriously, SDO just yawned. Yawned. Again! Breyer, pass the gavel!
12:20: Breyer says we should push this at all levels. Why don't kids read the Constitituion in civics? At age 14? (14? Breyer, have you been to a CA public school?). Wow, CR: "I don't see what that has to do with the present argument..." Breyer returns to discussing the Court, and its civility. No one has ever yelled in conference, not even over Bush v. Gore. Breyer explains that if people understood how the courts worked, people would not get so worked up about judges because they'd know how judges really work to solve problems using the law.
12:25 SDO outraged by "jail for judges" in South Dakota. CR: do you blame the media? SDO: I don't necessarily blame the media. ... SDO wants to raise the profile of the threat to a fair and impartial judiciary. She wants people to understand how fundamentally we need neutral courts.
12:27 CR: judges are red meat in politics now. SDO links this to violence against judges. Huh? I guess she can't be right everytime.
12:30 Breyer discusses Cooper v. Aaron, and the need for paratroopers to integrate the schools. Breyer is so happy now that despite all the hard controversial cases, there "are no longer troops on the streets of America." People in America now realize "a rule of law is superior to a rule of force." Breyer worries that if we come into a world where people think judges are poltiicans in robes, "bad things can flow from that" and respect for the rule of law will deteriorate. SDO: "We're on that track if we don't engage in that debate. You see proposals in Congress to strip jurisdiction from the federal courts based on subject matter... this seems to me a strange step... threats to curtail the budget... threats to impeach a judge... these are amazing propositions."
12:34 SDO weighs in on Schiavo. Breyer recuses, since it may come up again. SDO discusses the litigation history, the special law in Congress requiring federal review. "That was most unusual, a law for a specific case." (not so unusual, see Woodbridge v. United States, an old patent case).
12:36: CR brings up Bush v. Gore, claiming it was a political decision. SDO answers much quicker than she has earlier. She says the court made two legal decisions, "you could characterize it that way. I don't." Breyer is staring at his hands, forming a triangle under his nose. SDO points to later recounts which support that Bush won. CR moves on, no comment from Breyer.
12:42 CR: Are you both pragmatists? SDO: I'm just a cowgirl, so I had to be practical. Pragmatist. Problem solver. Breyer: he speaks of Madison, and dialogues with him, and BREYER RAISES HIS VOICE! THe ghost of Madison wants him to be PRACTICAL! Wow, I'm awake again. Breyer: "Am I always right? No. Do I think I'm right? Yes!" SDO: "I just tried to address the cases as they came... I did the best I could with the cases that came my way."
12:45 CR: "What's the best thing a Supreme Court justice can learn to do? Count to five."
12:47 The parties discuss the number of women clerks on the Court. A lot of hemming, and hopes for a return to more women clerks.
12:47 CR: Original intent? Is it a living document, Breyer? "Yes, it's true." "Look to the values or purposes of the clause or statute, and the consequences. ... I spend more time on purposes, values, and consequences [than precedent, text]." The Framers of the Commerce Clause did not know the internet, nor did the Framers of the First Amendment.
12:50 SDO "The genius of the Constitution was that it was couched in such general terms that it could survive for 200 years.... [new things] must be adapted into 'reasonableness' in the 4th, "cruel and unusual" in the 8th." Both Breyer and SDO agree we need to look to the intent of the Framers. "What were they basically intending... they didn't know about the internet... but they wanted to protect free speech!" says Breyer.
12:52 Criticisms of the court? SDO, Breyer: too expensive, too slow. Inaccessible to laymen. It's not "consumer-friendly" says Breyer. SDO: Litigation is too expensive. We've got a real problem.
12:54 SDO and Breyer go gaga for Roscoe Pound and some discussion he had with the Court. Burger had one too. Wow, wasn't expecting to hear Roscoe Pound's name.
The conference this talk is part of starts shortly.
"Thank you for joining us, we'll see you next time."
posted by Tom Fletcher at 12:07 AM
1 Comments:
That was SO much better than watching it in person. Thanks.
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