Fall 2007 Course Offerings
Per commenter request, discuss away. My thoughts:
1. There must be more classes coming.
2. Three years of waiting, graduation (hopefully), and now, now Choper teaches Constititonal Law. This will be the class to see.
3. I highly recommend Securities Regulation with Prof. Rose.
UPDATE: Invisible hand moving post up.
1. There must be more classes coming.
2. Three years of waiting, graduation (hopefully), and now, now Choper teaches Constititonal Law. This will be the class to see.
3. I highly recommend Securities Regulation with Prof. Rose.
UPDATE: Invisible hand moving post up.
Labels: Classes/Professors, Professor Ratings
posted by Tom Fletcher at 3:00 PM
105 Comments:
Do you think the registrar would let me take con law again w/ Choper? Because while my transcript technically says, "Constitutional Law: Basic Issues," it was with HaLo, which means it was really just "Race and the 14A," and it'd be nice to learn, you know, everything else in the Constitution.
So they're not offering the Supreme Court seminar with Choper this year? That blows. I should have held out to take Con Law with him rather than Vikram "I only teach 5 days per semester" Amar.
Also, what's the scoop on Professor Cole?
do you have to make the moot court team to take app ad?
no, app ad and moot court are unrelated. app ad is a great class.
thanks! one more - good idea to get professional responsibility out of the way, or wait? does it actually require 3 units worth of work?
If app ad and moot court are unrelated, why is it being "open to 2Ls" with perhaps a token slot for a 3L or two? Do 3Ls ever get in?
get ethics out of the way in the fall because there are more classes to choose from (I would recommend Steele's class). there is only one ethics course in the spring and i've heard mixed reviews. Or you could always wait and take it as a 3L by getting a waiver, but then you're with a bunch of people in the class below you.
the only ethics class in the fall that fulfills the PR requirement is from 6:20-9pm on thursday. is this normal?
Yes, 6:01, this is normal. Also normal is all of the complaining about Fall semester. Fall semester is always lacking because many professors are teaching 1L classes, or are otherwise occupied. Spring always has a bigger selection. But usually some Fall courses are added during the Summer, so keep an eye on the Course Updates page.
Also, keep in mind that DE is trying hard to increase the size of the faculty, which in turn will increase the course offerings. Of course, it will also send student groups out of Boalt offices, but I guess you gotta pick your poison...
And take Choper if you can.
Do the ethics classes tend to be at more convenient times in the Spring?
Any other course/professor recommendations?
Thoughts on Income Tax I??
It's not that app ad and moot court are completely unrelated. Being in app ad is a way to get onto moot court board. This is a primary reason why app ad is for 2Ls -- you take it in your 2L year and then can be on the board your 3L year. Also, it prepares you for work on various appellate advocacy teams later in you 2L and 3L years. However, 3Ls do sometimes get in (see this semester) when the class isn't oversubscribed.
I would like to second Tom's plug for Amanda Rose's Sec Regs class. She cold calls which keeps you on your toes, but she was incredibly sharp for someone never having taught before (Sharper than many tenured profs) and now she has a years experience under her belt.
On the flip side, while I enjoyed app ad, it is not a class to be taken lightly. It requires an enourmous amount of work over the course of the semester starting from the very beginning and not really tapering off at all. If you want to take it, just realize that it is a commitment.
Securities Reg last fall sucked. The cold-calling was just not working and a lot of time was wasted seeking out answers from students that were not forthcoming.
But, I think Amanda Rose did as well as she could as a first-time instructor (especially one that had to replace the Sonsinis at the last minute). She is smart, and knows her stuff. I think that with some experience under her belt, and lots of frank comments from the last round of course evaluation, she'll be much better this fall. Although if you're a 1L, you might want to wait till she's a 3L so that she'll worked out more of the kinks.
And taking Legal Professions in the fall goes quite nicely with OCIP. There's not that much work, and John Steele provides a lot of great insights about law firms and the legal profession that are useful as you're wading through the insanity of OCIP.
Someone way up asked about Prof Cole. I took his ethics class and it was awful. That said, his reputation is in Constitutional law, so his Con Law II class could very well be great. But I doubt it, because he was literally incomprehensible in his ethics course.
With that said, has anyone taken Mishkin's Fed Courts class? Is it worth it? What about Negotiations with Hecht?
Given OCIP - how many hours should we take as fall 2Ls?
I did 14 and had one of my best semesters.
Most people doing OCIP take 12-14. If you're interviewing somewhere other than SF/SV then I would recommend going light on the units (12 maybe) since you'll be missing more classes flying around the country. Unless you don't get any call-backs (just kidding, you will).
For what it's worth on Income Tax - Prof. Lazerow historically (at other schools) does not allow laptops. And he chronically "hides the ball." And cold calls. Be forewarned. He is moderately funny, however.
dear god, no laptops. crazy talk.
any feedback re: IP Trans v. IP Strategy?
IP Trans has to be one of the most useful classes I've taken. If you have any interest at all in doing transactional work, IP or not, this is a great class to take. It's taught by a husband and wife, with one being somewhat stronger than the other, but they work well together, and the class is very straight forward.
Anyone know anything about Henry Brown, who is teaching Evidence?
Any advice as to appellate advocacy versus the trial practice courses?
i did not like henry brown for evidence (though i hear he is great for evidence advocacy). i felt like i had to teach myself the whole class.
appellate advocacy and the trial ad classes are very different. both will have you work on your public speaking, but app ad is tremendously more work because you write a brief (i thought it was great for my writing, but it's still work). in trial ad, you're doing trial type speaking, which is much more dramatic than oral argument. so it's fun. i definitely recommend both kinds of classes.
I liked Brown's evidence. The rules of evidence are straightforward its the application which gets complex. Brown's class focuses on answering hypothetical questions using the rules, which I found incredibly useful in coming to understand them better. I can't imagine being taught evidence as though it were a first year lecture course
Wait to take evidence with Sklansky or Swift.
I don't think appellate advocacy is as much work as people make it out to be. You have a lot of work right around the deadlines (two drafts and a final brief, two practices and a final oral argument) but other than that, the reading is very light and you really don't miss much if you skip class. You do learn a lot and it is definitely one of the best courses Boalt has to offer. If you are currently a 1L, you may want to go to the first class in the fall and see what case Bill has chosen. If it sounds really boring to you, you'll have three more semesters to take it. Although you will learn a lot no matter what, if you find the case interesting, you will learn a lot more. (This semester's case dealt with tort liability in golf = BORING!)
Can anyone comment on all the recommendations to take Choper for Con Law? I'm just curious about why people like him so much. I know nothing about him. Thanks in advance!
This is probably a dumb question, but does anyone know when registration starts? The course enrollment page lists all asterisks for now...Thanks...
Has any one taken or heard anything about Drafting Legal Documents for Small Businesses and/or Small Business Counseling Practium? Any insight is appreciated.
9:20,
Choper is a Boalt institution. He clerked for Warren. He knows just about everything about the Constitution, and just about everyone who's interpreted it. He was Dean of the school, and has been as big an influence on Boalt as anyone, with both positive and negative results. I don't know what he's like in a lecture class, but in a small setting he is pretty funny and damned smart.
Anyway, he's a pretty interesting guy and it's a cool opportunity to take Con Law from him...
registration probably starts Monday, but I think that most upcoming 3L's register on Wednesday.
You can go to Bearfacts - Registration - Telebears Appointment to find out when to register for classes.
Has anyone heard anything about Diane Amann for Con Law?
I noticed in the BBB that it says we should be able to see our Spring '07 grades "[a]fter mid-July" on Bearfacts. Does this mean they're going back to the old system where grades are released all at once, rather than as professors turn them in?
This is seriously a pain for clerkship applicants. Anyone hoping to apply to judges who accept early applications can kiss their chances goodbye.
Quick plug for Patent Litigation, which is team taught by Matt Powers, Vern Winters, and Ed Reines of Weil Gotshall SV. Intro to IP (or another IP class) is a pre-req, but this course would be extremely valuable for anyone interested in litigation. Over the course of the semester you prepare for about ten oral arguments. You're "on call" each week; the number of actual arguments you do depends on class size. I think I got to do around five or so this year. It's a lot of work, but completely worth it. The course material is very well-designed, and the instructors are outstanding. One of my top Boalt experiences, and highly recommended.
Note--I think the course is only offered in the Spring, but I won't be here to plug it then. So keep it in mind.
Don't take ethics with Ross unless you like torture.
as for Con Law with Choper, I don't know the man and have never taken a class with him. But I did take Con Law with Amar and it was horrible. He was all over the place in his lectures. He would frequently skip days ahead in the reading. And I hear similarly bad things about HaLo's Con Law class. So, maybe it isn't that Choper is that great a Con Law teacher, it's that the others are that bad.
HaLo's con law class is the best class I had at Boalt. He's not to everyone's liking, but he's brilliant and engaging.
Do not under any circumstances take Art Law. It is a horrific, terrible, bad class.
12:16, Can you or anyone else who took Art Law expand a bit more on why it was horrific? I'm interested in taking it but want to make sure I'll actually get something out of it.
Does anyone know the address of the site set up that reports (with some accuracy) how quickly classes are filling up? Thank you!
SIDEBAR!!!!
Come on people, I know I'm a cranky 3L who is getting tired of the repetition, but put some effort into it.
Art law is terrible because after you work extremely hard (in a group) on the exact same project and there is absolutely no way to know who did what on the project, she will arbitraily give people in the same group different grades. That’s right, one person will get an H while the other gets a P even though their class participation was the same and there was no way to know who did what on the project.
Sorry for fishing, but has anyone heard anything about any of these classes:
Accounting (DeLeo)
International Business Transactoins (Lazerow)
Immigration Law (Jastram)
Mediation (Marshall)
Bankruptcy (Jellen)
International Law (Guzman)
RE Transactions (Cambray, Hansen)
I'm just looking for practical, decent classes, so long as they aren't overly intense or time-consuming...:) Thanks!
International Law is ok, but his delivery is a little (or very) dry sometimes. The material is very interesting though.
Kate Jastram is a very good professor to have in a small seminar-style class (such as the Global Migration course she's teaching)- she gives lots of feedback while you're working on your writing assignment. Not sure about how she is in a lecture-style class, however.
Does anybody have any experience with or hearsay about Cole as a conlaw prof?
Has anyone taken a class with Herma Hill Kay? Her feedback indicates that she consistently give too much work. But she's supposed to be good, no?
Any opinions on Caron's 'Resolution of private international disputes' and Lazerow's 'International Business Transactions'? Thanks
I found Caron somewhat breezy and unclear. That being said, he will sing for you - and he seems to know a lot of important people in the international law community.
hhk is terrible.
A little re-iteration:
Ha-Lo's Con Law, for all his prima-donna arrogance, is an amazing class.
Art Law is awful. She will assign over 3,000 pages of reading for one class and hold you responsible for little shifts in procedural posture. Plus your project is based on a group project the product of which she leaves unarticulated. And she's crazy.
HHK gives a ton of reading. Also, if the class is small, she tends to speak very little, which IMHO defeats the whole purpose of taking a class with her. The final was pretty brutal too.
If you're talking about conflict of laws, HHK literally wrote the book. I thought the class was great, and she skillfully managed discussion (I also had some great feloow students in the class, so class discussion was actually interesting). The course covered an awful lot of ground, though, and I think 3Ls are perhaps better suited (it helps to have Civ Pro II, maybe Con Law). I took it as a 2L and, while one of the most interesting areas of law I studied at school, I was a little over my head sometimes to appreciate the nuances.
Major downside: in-class, closed book exam. And it was hard.
As an aside, the first case I got at my summer gig was a conflict of laws issue, and I was chosen in part because I was one of just two summers who had taken a conflicts class. The partner in charge harped on the decline of conflicts teaching in law schools, and said he thought it was one of the most important one could take in law school.
Re: Caron. I thought the RPID course was very straightforward, quite interesting. As a previous commenter noted, Caron's speaking style isn't concise nor always clear, but he tends to repeat himself and hit the same broad themes again and again. 24-hour take home exam. Caron was a real straight shooter on the exam too -- no curveball questions or anything.
Guzman in my experience is a very good teacher of some really important legal skills, notably reading and interpreting treaties and international agreements. He's not the most dynamic lecturer, as others have noted, but he puts a nice outline on the board that shapes discussion for the day well.
It's the first time I've heard Lazerow is teaching Int'l Business Transactions. In the past, Buxbaum has taught a course of that name that was a 20 person seminar, half LLMs and half JDs. It sounded like an interesting exercise: each week a JD/LLM pair would have to lead the class through the issues of a fictional transaction. No idea what Lazerow would be like though.
For the person asking about real estate: I thought Hansen was a very energetic lecturer who really knows the material and has thought about how to teach it (unlike some practitioners who teach). He adds little war stories now and then, which I liked. The book is not very good--like 90% unedited cases which you can just as easily get off Lexis but there's no point b/c as long as you take semi-decent notes the final will not be hard--but the comments he has added in between some of the cases are helpful (and are VERY helpful for the spring class).
And for those of you looking ahead to the spring, Peterson's Land Use class will much more than likely be on the schedule, as will Admin with Bamberger (Admin every semester??! Amazing!).
More fishing.. Civ Pro II with Bundy?
CPII with Bundy is a don't miss class.
1) The topic is important if you remotely plan on doing anything related to litigation. My first summer I had several jurisdiction and venue assignments. I had to learn on the fly because Boalt separates CP into two classes.
2) Bundy cracks me up. Then again so does Guzman. I've heard the dissents re: Bundy and I'm not convinced. He's a great teacher, period!
3) Donuts.
you had me at donuts.
thanks armen.
I always heard that Guzman wasn't a dynamic lecturer, and so I avoided him until this semester. But I don't see why people think that. Maybe he's not the most charismatic lecturer in the world, but i have had many, many professors way more boring than him. I've been very pleasantly surprised by his int'l law class. The other good thing about that class is you're generally either talking about recent events (Iraq, torture, etc.) or important historical events (Rwanda, Kosovo, etc.)
CPII with Bundy is an important class, and he's great.
Con Law with Halo: great class, but just understand what it is before you take it.
How do people know what classes are being offered in the Spring? Is it just word of mouth?
xI'm in CPII with Vetter right now. Take it with Bundy. Don't wait and get stuck with Vetter.
As for Cole's Con Law, dear god I hope he's not teaching that. I took Cole's ethics last fall and was bored bored bored. The lectures seem to go nowhere. And he does a terrible job of keeping class discussions on point. Maybe he'll be better at Con Law than he was at professional responsibility. Good luck.
5:40 - on the last pages of the blue hard copy class list there are some listings of spring classes. In addition - if you really have to know who's going to offer what you can ask professors - most of them already know their schedule for the spring.
What's the scoop on Negotiations with Hecht? Anyone know anything about him?
Conflicts with HHK is a ton of reading, the final is brutal, and the class has been described as "civpro on crack".
Having said that, it is definitely worth taking - just be aware that it is hard, and she tends to skip past the basics of any case and goes straight into the nuances. I agree that you should have CPII first and take it as a 3L.
Negotiations with Hecht is a pretty good class. He knows his stuff, and leads a pretty good class. Typically, you do one negotiation out of class per week, which takes between 15-45 minutes of outside class time. There is also a short presentation (each student accountable for about 5 minutes) and two very manageable response papers (I think 6 and 10 pages respectively). There is little to no reading in the class also, which makes it pretty sweet. The class can become a bit of a pain in the ass though, but I'm glad I took it. That and it's pass/no pass, so I was all about that.
Any thoughts on Mishkin vs. Fletcher for Fed Courts?
No, there are no thoughts re Mishkin v. Fletcher. You shouldn't even HAVE to think about it. It should be an automatic kneejerk reaction to take WF. Hear that? Automatic.
any idea if the "course enrollment count" is still being updated? have noticed it hasn't changed in a few days. is this info presented anywhere else?
Armen, you should know better than to automatically follow kneejerk reactions. Fletcher does have a great reputation, but the class is also early in the mornings (on Fridays even), will be filled with every redhot in the school, and most significantly is a huge lecture as opposed to Mishkin's 15 person seminar.
Have you had Mishkin, Armen?
AUTOMATIC!!!!
Do you hear me Lebowski? I won't even dignify your questions with any sort of a substantive response. That's how ricockulous they are. Thou shalt not have any other gods before me, and thou shalt take Fletcher for Fed Courts.
It doesn't appear to be periodically updating. Which is just typical, typical fucking Boalt -- going in reverse. I remember last year having a fun, this-is-how-pathetic-I-am afternoon watching a seminar I wanted slowly fill to capacity over 1-2 hours -- with the counter updating my inevitable doom every 15-30m.
Now, it looks like its stuck. I doubt it's Boalt.org's fault -- UC or Boalt probably changed the IT script or something (check that, a $40-an-hour 23 year old IT contractor changed the script, because the State of California is too dumb to hire permanent IT guys rather than waste money on consultants), and now students have less information, not more. Typical, typical...
Evidence with Brown for someone who really wants to take Evidence as soon as possible?
Law in Film with Sassoubre?
Children & the Law with Hollinger?
Civil Rights Litigation with Rosenbaum/Fernholz?
2:47 PM and similar commenters--why don't you just get Armen to fill out your schedule for you?
Anyway, I didn't take Mishkin, but I've heard uniformly terrible things. Take Fletcher.
Any other thoughts on 1A with Cole? We've heard a bit about his ethics class last Fall -- but is he so old that he only touches once every 3 years or so? Has anyone under the age of 35 had him for anything else?
how can you get the 'counter' (even if it doesn't update regularly) -- link?
Side mother fucking bar.
God there sure are a lot of illterate people at Boalt!
Tragedy! Is the unofficial Boalt course enrollment page that was maintained by Shawn no longer working? It looks like it has up the classes from spring semester. Seriously, this is bad news if it is gone because we all know the administration isn't going to put up a similar site anytime soon.
If you go to Telebears and then click on "Enroll/waitlist" (I think, it might be one of the other links under "Class Search"), you can search by CCN and get up-to-date enrollment info.
I can confirm what Max just said b/c I just tried it. If I remember correctly, log into Telebears, think click the Fall 2007 tab, then click Enroll/Waitlist on the left side.
Also, can anyone comment on Juvenile Justice with Zimring? Or how much work Advanced Legal Research is? Thanks
Can any 2L/3Ls give us 1Ls some advice on what classes we absolutely must bid on during Phase I if we want any chance of getting in to them? Thanks!
I took Mishkin's Fed Courts, and I also took Civ Pro II with Fletcher. I understand why people recommend Fletcher, especially if they have not taken a class with Mishkin. Fletcher is incredibly endearing and admirable, and he's a very good teacher. I developed a huge crush on him while I was taking his class. That said, Mishkin's Fed Courts was a more rewarding experience for me than Fletcher's course. Mishkin is harsh, very Socratic, cryptic, crabby, hard of hearing, a little spacey, and virtually impossible to read. But something about his teaching style and his personality induce extremely hard work, at least in a certain kind of person, and that is rewarding, especially in a course like Fed Courts. I know I'm not the only person who's taken him who views that course as the best they took at Boalt, although I'm sure not all of his students feel that way. And I might have come away with a different feeling about the class had I gotten a different grade from him. But maybe not--I had a similar reaction throughout the semester. If you are compassionate, a little masochistic, and can get real satisfaction from being pushed very hard and meeting challenges, then Mishkin is worth some thought. There was an extra dimension to Mishkin's class that I did not find in Fletcher's class, even though I love WF to death.
(I also took a course with Vetter, and I would say that Mishkin might appeal to people who like or at least don't mind Vetter--for me, class time with Vetter was sometimes painful, but I thought his final exam was a work of art.)
8:41: care to elaborate on Vetter's "work of art"? :)
Bankruptcy with Jellen? Or Immigration with Jastram?
Vetter exam. It was just a straightforward, very streamlined issue spotter. Fact pattern and questions amounted to no more than 250 words, but presented enough material for a four-hour exam. It performed its function perfectly and contained not a letter more than was necessary. No cutesiness, no attempt to ingratiate himself to students.
The Unofficial Course webpage was moved to boalt.org.
The link is here: http://www.boalt.org/courses.html
It looks like it's current, but I'm graduating so I don't really know what's being offered next semester.
What does it mean on telebears when a class isn't full but there's a waitlist? Thx.
I'm guessing it means that a certain number of spots are reserved for 3Ls, and if they don't fill up they'll open em up to 2L's.
I've encountered the same thing, but I'm a soon-to-be 3L (trying to register for Admin Law). Anybody know any reason why there would be a cap on 3Ls?
ok, long shot but has anyone heard ANYTHING about the new guy teaching evidence? Henry Brown? would love to wait for Swift but not sure I can..
He's not exactly a "new guy" considering he taught it for the third or fourth time last fall. I have not heard good things about Brown, except that he has steadily improved over the years, but he's still not very good.
dude. there are 30 ppl on the waitlist for CPII already. :(
Juvenile Justice with Zimring: First, he's certifiable. Second, his way is the only way so don't even try to argue with him in class. Third, the last time he taught the course, he assigned his own book as a supplement - as long as you read that, there's no real need to do much of the casebook reading or come to class.
How is crim pro w/ Weisselberg? Everything else I really want to take is full...
OK. I've registered... 3 classes, 3 waitlists, and I'm pretty far down on two of them (around 50th). Sad, for sure, but is that crazy? Is it better to sign up for classes I know I can get into?
How is anyone supposed to get into CPII?? At least any upcoming 2Ls? I registered as soon as my appt time and am close to 50th. Not good.
I have news for you late registrants - this will be your problem throughout your career at Boalt. Those with late registration timmes ALWYAS have late registration times. The registrar says they assign times randomly each semester. Lie. You'll be waitlisted next semester too.
I thought we hired a bunch of new fucking faculty!!!. Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I taking crazy pills??? What are these people doing if not teaching? Why are we hiring them if not to teach? What has DE been doing for the last three years?
I want to know in what sort of sick world they double the faculty and cut the number of classes in half. And you're going to ask me for $$ next year? You have to be out of your fucking mind.
so not all 2Ls have the same registration time? no wonder...
Weisselberg is decent. He won't "wow" you, but he puts a lot of effort into his classes, knows what he's talking about, and is very friendly.
As far as where the faculty's been, at least one is having a baby. Though really, that particular professor is doing us all a favor by not teaching.
has anybody heard anything about the Boalt student who posted a threat against Hastings on some online discussion board? Apparently, it caused Hastings to shut down for the day, in light of what happened at V-Tech. see http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/
for a brief sketch of what happened, including a letter of apology from Edley on behalf of the boalt community.
Points to 7:33 for the Zoolander reference.
what does it mean by "section 01 has 12 students enrolled with a limit of 16 and has 10 students on the waiting list with a limit of 16." Is that limit of 16 on the waiting list or for the entire class? So, if I'm numero 10 on the waitlist do I get the Heisman or what?
10:45, there is a limit of 16 on the class and a limit of 16 people allowed on the waitlist. Reading comprehension obviously is not one of your strengths.
I hazard to say that I am not the only one who thinks the current ("official") course reviews offered by Boalt are useless. How difficult would it be to include actual student comments about a particular class? This blog is helpful, but an insufficient substitute for a more formalized course review resource. Any ideas on getting Boalt to move in that direction?
3:25PM: We should lobby to get course reviews abolished entirely. Then maybe they will expand the service. The registrar/admin seem to be very good at making counterintuitive decisions and entirely disregarding student preferences.
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