Falling Down
Via CNN:
UPDATE: The folks at KRON 4 have created this blog to cover the collapsed freeway. I find it mildly amusing. The best part is how their suggested alternate route is torn to shreds by the commenters.
The fire melted a second interchange from eastbound I-80 to eastbound I-580 located above the first interchange, causing a 250-yard section of the roadway to collapse onto the roadway below, according to the highway patrol.Holy crap! So basically the spaghetti will be closed for a while. There isn't much to say, is there?
UPDATE: The folks at KRON 4 have created this blog to cover the collapsed freeway. I find it mildly amusing. The best part is how their suggested alternate route is torn to shreds by the commenters.
posted by Armen Adzhemyan at 2:00 PM
21 Comments:
I guess I no longer need to ask whether I can park at work for the summer.
"California Highway Patrol spokesman Trent Cross said Mosqueda was driving at an unsafe speed in a 50 mph zone, moving in the right lane of the two-lane connector ramp between westbound Interstate 80 and southbound Interstate 880, when he struck the right guardrail, causing the truck to overturn."
Query: If the entire overpass--not to mention the truck--has been burnt beyond recognition and totally incinerated...how do they know he was speeding? Are you telling me the laws of physics are such that that's the only way he could have crashed? Couldn't he just have made the turn a little hard or some mistake more understandable than the more brazen, culpable (not to mention, liability-creating) act of speeding?
Well the obvious answer is that the driver survived with only 2nd degree burns, meaning he told the truth about how fast he was traveling. But in general, the CHP is probably the best agency in the country when it comes to accident investigations. Ask our classmate DR how they'd go about estimating speed even if the driver hadn't survived.
First of all, there's no evidence he said anything. Second of all, it sounds like the guy is/was delirious. Third of all, they normally measure speed by looking at a) skid marks on the asphalt and b) destruction to the automobile, but I don't see how either of those pieces of evidence could be left after a 1.5 hour, 7000-degree structure fire that melted a 250-yard strip of the world into nothingness.
Ok you win, it's a conspiracy.
So two seconds worth of research revealed that the truck was on the W80 to S880 ramp when he crashed. The flames melted the overpass ABOVE the truck (E80 to E580). Ergo, skid marks should be well in tact. Plus the driver walked to a gas station and got a cab to kaiser. Delirious? And if we know he got a cab to Kaiser, I think it's safe to conclude that he yapped about his speed.
You can rest easy tonight.
Read the SFGate article, you ignominous putz! The guy stumbled around for an hour, walked 1.5 miles through Oakland with his face melting off, and then somehow managed to find a cab to take him to the hospital. Do you really think in that state he said, "Yes, sire, I was driving at 58 MPH, though I had just passed the reduce speed sign of 50 MPH about 250 yards back."
Also, I'm pretty sure fires burn in ALL directions -- not just up. Don't fuck with my chemistry knowledge. Don't do it, man. -- HHR
Listen genius, it's obvious you're not a smoker. Frankly, you sound like a borderline retard. Light a match. Which way does the flame burn? Oh ok. Now let's try another exercise. Drive a fully loaded gasoline truck. How long does it take to stop the truck at 10 mph? 20? 58? Oh, so you mean the truck might travel a great distance from the initial impact to its final resting place where the fire actually occurred? Ah yes. But these are physics. Didn't you flunk physics? Stick to law, chemistry, medicine, literature, politics, etc., but leave physics to those who got a 3 on AP Physics B (no calculus).
You indeed have me there. I did almost flunk physics in college--but that was at least partly due to C2H5OH.
Armen, I suggest that you actually conduct your match experiment. Hold it upright with your fingers at the bottom. Does the flame move down towards your fingers? Yes, and eventually you will get burned.
But I agree that there is probably a way they can determine the speed of the truck. It likely hit the guard rail and then continued traveling as it turned over, leaving plenty of evidence at the initial point of collision.
"Investigators examined scrapes and other physical evidence from the accident scene Monday to determine what caused the collision and whether the driver was at fault, CHP Officer Les Bishop said."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/04/30/state/n175817D64.DTL
I should add that I'm suspicious of the initial report that he was speeding not just because you'd think that would be a litle difficult to determine -- but because SOMEBODY is at fault -- and the State of California is going to pretty keen to say it wasn't them.
How could it be their fault? I don't know. Maybe the ramp wasn't up to code. Maybe it was built incorrectly. Maybe the guardrails weren't properly maintained. Maybe trucks should have been required to do 40 or 45 MPH instead of 50 (as they do on other stretches of tight freeway).
Maybe it was the trucking company's fault: Maybe the truck was too overloaded for that particular ramp or road (there's tons of weight requirements you see on freeways as you drive through the Bay Area.) Maybe, as they suggest in the article, he shouldn't have had a commercial driver's license in the first place.
All I know is, if Rachel Moran taught me anything, it's that you can blame ANYONE for an accident. (And, occasionally, they deserve it, too.) So I'm going to be real suspicious when the State of California tells me one hour after a ginormous clusterfuck fireball that of course the guy was speeding.
But we'll see. (He probably was.)
Who takes the transbay AC? What's the impact?
update on the driver: yikes....
Well now I'm torn. Should I feel bad for the guy that the media is digging at his background?
Sorry Armen. No skid marks.
CHP spokesman Mike Wright said today that the extensive destruction made it difficult for investigators to truly know how fast the tanker driver was going when he crashed. The driver, who walked a mile and a half to receive help, is hospitalized with second-degree burns. On Sunday, CHP officials said James Mosqueda, 51, had been going too fast.
"I don't know if we'll ever be able to tell that he was speeding because there's not much left up there in the way of skid marls. We're going to examine the area," he said. "The best information will come from the driver when he gives a statement. Then we'll give our collision report to the district attorney, who will decide what to do."
I knew it! Armen owes me big time. Finally, a victory. Pay the $5 to Henry, immediately. (Finally a bet that didn't depend on the Man from Milwaukee laying a goose egg...)
What is the relationship between speeding and a criminal record?
Exactly, Moira. I am not sure why having a felony should prevent someone from being able to get a license to drive commercial trucks. Maybe I am missing something.
Gas tankers are essentially giant bombs. Felons aren't even allowed to own guns. Think about it.
10:22--
How many people, felons or otherwise, have ever used a gas tanker as a bomb in this country? That's what I thought.
1:13 - You're right, nobody's ever done it so it's safe to give them explosives. Along with lasers. And sharks. And sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads.
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