Berkeley City Council v. Marines - Part Deux
Have you had the privilege today (as I have) to see Berkeley at its finest?
From the Chron:
Anyone going tonight? Discussion is supposed to start at 9:00. It's sure to entertain.
Anyone have a prediction re: action(s) of the city council when the entire nation is watching? Resulting aftermath?
From the Chron:
Anyone going tonight? Discussion is supposed to start at 9:00. It's sure to entertain.
Anyone have a prediction re: action(s) of the city council when the entire nation is watching? Resulting aftermath?
Labels: Only In Berkeley, Rabid Liberals
posted by tj at 5:46 PM
94 Comments:
Sorry to be off-point, but 9-noon on March 1, in Boalt 105, I will give a live MPRE prep lecture. Because this is my first stab at that, I urge people not to rely solely upon my lecture but rather to use it as a supplement at best.
For those with cable, the city council meeting is also on channel 33 right now, and will run through the end of the meeting. Right now it's about property taxes, though, and really boring. But it's there.
Finally, a post related to Boalt and/or Berkeley. Thank you.
Because the election of the next President is strictly an Albany matter.
no offense, but I don't come to N&B to read about national politics. I don't really care what various anonymous first and second year law students think about the election. There are far better written and more informed blogs on those matters. N&B should stick to what it does best: discussing issues unique to the Berkeley and Boalt communities.
Thanks, 7:40 (and 6:27, if you're different posters).
I love you guys, but I have to agree with the comment(s) above. One or two political articles, sure, why not. Maybe even just to open up discussion among Boalties about various candidates.
But, come on. Most of the articles recently haven't really been anywhere near "stories from the fruits and nuts of" Boalt Hall. The commentor above is right -- a lot of these political commentary posts belong elsewhere.
That being said, please don't get me wrong. I think it's a great thing that you guys do for us Boalties. I wouldn't complain about you guys going off-topic if I didn't appreciate what this blog represents.
I'm pretty sure there are about 10 named and anonymous people who are enjoying their little Daily Kos, Jr. They must imagine others are reading it or else they'd just have their discussion in a permanent thread off the main page.
Just use the political posts as places to post off-topic comments in case something interesting DOES happen. But, it's not like this is really hurting the rest of us.
If we're honest, there are only really a few times a semester that N&B has anything to say that's truly relevant about Boalt. Fire alarms? Bekki's job hunt? I can skim through these posts just as quickly, realize what they are, check the comments for anything juicy, and move on with my life.
Someone should really be liveblogging the city council meeting.
I heard there is a buzz around Boalt about a certain K professor who is kicking his students out of class if they attempt to come in late. Someone should write about that.
The past two hours of the city council meeting have been taken up with:
1) Debate over whether the decision of the Zoning Adjustments Board permitting demolition of a dilapidated, abandoned building in West Berkeley should be affirmed. The City Council appeared to strongly favor affirming the decision. Not clear on why it shouldn't be affirmed; the opponents seemed to agree that it should be demolished but felt it should be re-zoned or something.
2) Debate over whether a nuisance abatement order should be initiated against the Pacific Steel Casting plant, located on 2nd St., should be referred to the Zoning Office. We heard from numerous Pacific Steel Casting plant employees, some adorning construction gear, attesting to how clean the plant is and how much they need to keep their jobs.
3) Debate over whether there should be a moratorium on telephone antennas. We heard from numerous Berkeley residents concerned about the health effects of rays from cell phones, which apparently include cancer and birth defects.
All in all, it's been an exciting Tuesday night.
I've been enjoying the politics stuff as well.
However, to be fair, the older bloggers tend to "yell" at the younger posters when they ask about class recommendations, OCIP advice, etc. They argue that such should be conducted on a permanent thread.
Maybe some of the anonymous posters here have a point (who hopefully are not all the same person) - we should probably move some of it to the permanent thread or create a new thread for it.
In the spirit of discussing more Berkeley-related things, we should start with this post!
I'm hearing helicopters overhead and it's getting rather annoying.
I don't care enough to live-blog, but I'll probably see what I can catch on cable and report back if there's anything good...
Permanent threads just don't work TJ. I think the smart thing would have been for me to tag all posts with relevant labels to make it easier for people to find 500000 posts discussing clerkships. But I do plan on getting rid of some of the permanent threads.
The marines issue hasn't even come up yet, but I have learned that "freedom of speech" requires a moratorium on cell phone towers.
it's starting! (we can all liveblog here.)
mayor b. is reading the rules. basically, everyone gets a minute. you can applaud but not boo. there are 300 speakers (which means we'll get this over in five hours at a minimum). it is going to be resolved "either this evening or this morning [sic], whichever comes first." mayor b. doesn't seem to understand that this evening necessarily precedes the morning. and most of all, be respectful. he doesn't think that's too much to ask. (we'll see...)
I bet the ground rules won't last very long.
Wait. This evening or this morning . . . . which one DOES come first?
Is that sort of like how CPAC asked the conservatives to please not boo war hero and former POW and now Senator John McCain?
What we should really do is put CPAC in a room with the Berkeley City Council and take bets on who emerges alive.
(Sorry to write about politics again! )
I love the "Fuck Bush" t-shirt visible on Ch. 33...
First good point from an anti-resolution citizen: says that while the Council is entitled to their opinion as individuals and as a body, they must be respectful.
I'm most worked up right now about the clearly visible "Stop Verizon Cell Towers" sign in the background. I have to pay Comcast for a home phone line because I get no damn reception in my apartment. VIVA VERIZON CELL TOWERS...
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the anti-Berkeleyites or troops supporters or true patriots (what should we call them, anyway) are also making strong threats to boycott berkeley businesses. i believe this plays directly into the council's plan - they don't want businesses in berkeley, either.
I can state fairly confidently that Berkeley has not added any cell phone towers since the days of Zack Morris's dad. This is the same city council that banned nanotechnology. Do you really think they're going to approve a cell tower?
They let the highschool students take up a lot more than their allocated time...
This isn't the Berkeley City Council. Nothing enrages me than dumbshit remarks like equating those opposed to the resolution as pro-war.
Scary that it took two young BHS students to speak most eloquently against the war (not that their approach suggested - to ban recruiters with zoning law - is legal)...
*more than
The two BHS students definitely had the best hair of any pro-resolution speakers.
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Armen is censoring posts that call the people speaking out against the resolution "war-mongers." Talk about irony.
Armen, what the HELL is your problem. Let people leave comments. They're entitled to their point of view.
That's not irony. That's not dealing with retards. The irony is that you can string words together.
Armen, stop being a fascist.
How can others continue to blog on N&B knowing that the admin censors their readers' comments?
Armen effectively killed this thread. Thanks a lot.
"why did the right-wing descend upon berkeley?"
that's the quote of the night so far. i find myself wondering the same thing about the left-wing.
""why did the right-wing descend upon berkeley?"
that's the quote of the night so far. i find myself wondering the same thing about the left-wing."
Funny Matt, I agree - definitely the quote of the night. The left-wing speakers really cant fathom that there may be people who actually already live in Berkeley who disagree with them (or so I've heard...).
First, waiting a minute to post doesn't change the fact that it's the same douche posting. Second, I will never tolerate anyone comparing those who support our troops to war mongers. Ever. You're entitled to your opinions. But this blog will never EVER give you a bully pulpit to characterize those who are eternally grateful to those who risk their lives without a second thought when we ask them to as "war mongers."
To quote Melvin Udall, "sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here."
Yeah. Totally unnecessary. Is there anything but laziness that's stopping someone from starting and advertising a new Berkeley Law blog? One that is not controlled by someone who is clinging to it as some kind of creepy power trip?
so that Ms. Atkinson lady that just spoke. the one that rents to college students to make ends meet. totally looked at her place last fall. small and quaint, i would say. but seemed nice enough. ended up going somewhere else, in the end.
that last guy sounded like Ah-nold. he was a lot skinnier, though.
We're about 30 mins into the public comment.
I think that evaluating arguments based upon logic would give a strong favor to the pro-marines speakers (so far). Their argument that Berkeley's pro-speech and welcoming diversity history doesn't comport with shutting out the recruiting station seems to be un-rebutted.
The code pink side seems to be hitting on how unpopular the war currently is, and how they feel it's an illegal and immoral war. I'm just not seeing how they're responding to the above countering argument. If we give them that the war was all of those things, does that necessarily mean that the recruiting station should be shut down?
Should be interesting how it plays out in the remaining public comment...
tj, i'd imagine the repetition of the same talking points, over and over and over. this will be boring soon...unless something wild happens.
Hey, Asm. Guy Houston showed up. Funny he's going to be kept to 1 minute like anyone else, despite the fact he's the one who may end up being the most influential politician for Berkeley's budget next year.
To the Mayor's credit, he's upholding decorum even when the crowd is yelling and making a ruckus in the mayor's defense.
10:13 PM - there is now.
http://berkeleylaw.blogspot.com/
spread the word
the pink statue of liberty!
by the way, stop Verizon cell towers near our homes.
I actually live in Ms. Atkinson's house. I thought she spoke well.
did armen really censor people on here for saying something he didn't like?
boalties censoring boalties? say it ain't so!
he censored a post of mine where I said that a troop-supporter was holding a photo of a Marine behind an anti-war speaker. Except I characterized the "troop-supporter" as a "war-monger." Armen didn't like it, and removed it.
Boalties censoring crazy, rabid Boalties. There's a difference.
I really enjoyed the guy a little while ago who felt the need to point out his wife was an African-American.
what i've learned so far: i need to get out of berkeley.
I hate this place.
what i've learned: high school girls are far more articulate than high school boys.
props to this 15-year-old kid for getting up there and talking. he was one of the top five speakers of the night so far.
i learned that the first day i ever came to this place when some homeless guy yelled at me for apologizing to him.
oh, and now there is the guy comparing those who support the troops to those who allowed segregation to continue.
At least they didn't compare him to Armen.
:)
I laughed. Now we're even.
i'm really enjoying the way they get cut off just as they get into the energy of their rants
the guy with the iphone is starting to creep me out.
i haven't noticed the iphone, but i am sick of the guy behind all the speakers sneering when people talk. looks like a real tool (he probably is the iphone guy).
For a place that supposedly values tolerance, some Berkeley folks sure don't tolerate other opinions very well. I saw a Marine mom on the 11 o' clock news that was pelted with an egg. Given her sacrifice that is the most shameful thing I have seen in a long time.
11:25 - a lot of the pinkies say that the pro-troops (war-mongerers?) group struck them in different ways, too. probably goes both ways.
and i thought that recess meant they were going to vote. wtf?
Yeah, I saw the pro-Marine folks get pushy. I still doubt the Marine mom was throwing blows, but you never know.
i'm not suggesting that the marine mom was throwing blows. only that there were people in both mobs acting inappropriately. (and that one side probably cannot single out the other...)
and where is oprah?
Oh wow, marine daughter called Berkeley city council terrorists. Nice.
that kid goes to uc-berkeley? how the hell did he get in?
Anyone catch that guy with the green and black fleece jacket? He made the point I wanted to give.
How much money is the city paying for the police force today? How much money are they committing to patrolling the future demonstrations? All of that is not only expensive, but much the direct result of their action here. If they were to spend that money, I'd rather see it patrolling Shattuck and Telegraph to clean things up.
Great point, though delivery could have been better (both his, and mine here)...
WTF, a girl just compared the Marines to drug pushers. Of course kids can't make a reasoned decision to join the military if the office location is close to a high school. What is wrong with these people? Are we really that afraid that people can't make up their own mind about military service in Berkeley of all places?
yeah, i agree with that green-fleece guy on principle - that the money would be better spent elsewhere - and i'm guessing they got paid overtime, probably a few hundred thousand dollars.
but not patrolling telegraph. one day (or five or fifty) of patrolling telegraph isn't going to clean up the city. the city needs a vast and sweeping redevelopment plan for its sadder areas (which, with berkeley's standard of a community meeting for everything, will go at a snail's pace).
but i agree with the guy. fix potholes. invest in local small businesses. clean up parks.
yes, communists! and communists support islamic fascism! woohoo!
I was waiting for my favorite line that "freedom isn't free." Now my night is complete.
Here's what I want to know: Why didn't someone contact M. White and pay him $500 to stand in the audience in his Borat costume and then, when the time came, lean into the microphone and say with all distinct Khazkian earnestness: "We support your....war of terror."
Great, white beret guy is brainwashing his first graders with his political views. Why would anyone wait to speak just to say that?
Here's the other thing I want to know (seriously): Isn't there a rather obvious 1A problem in giving Code Pink the parking spot? (Some guy just alluded to this). I haven't taken Con Law II, but if you can't deny a parade ordinance to Nazis, how can you affirmatively grant special treatment to anti-war protesters? (Insofar as no one else gets free parking). Isn't that a rather blatant government preference for a particular viewpoint? Can Congress give free parking to everyone who supports the war?
12:16 - really testing my endurance here. FINALLY get to city council discussion.
yeah, i ran out of beer nearly an hour ago.
Hahahaha. The teacher doesn't want his first graders to play with toy soldiers.
"What message does that send?"
Toy soldiers! Geez! Nothing's sacred anymore. I'm gonna go find my GI joes and play with them now.
Bates: seeks to clarify, clean language
Worthington: rescind, clean, apologize, take additional steps to help veterans
Max Anderson: no need to apologize, war based on lies and fabrications, if any apology should come from Bush regime who sacrificed the lives in Iraq and soldiers; Code Pink concession is small compared to $11 bil in recruiting; support cleaning up language, but not because compelled to by Sen DeMint (SC- R)
Wozniak: Apology is due for insults; wrong to encourage to resist / impede - shouldn't favor sides on issue; Marines do more than fight in Iraq
"to err is human, but to really screw up is the Berkeley City Council" - Wozniak
Wozniak: the real issue is not about the war, but whether it's this council's place to make the statement it did.
WELL PUT.
-Boaltie against the war but against the council embarassing the city like this.
Olds: wrong it took so long to arrest people blocking doors; voted against it in first place and felt shame for actions by council; upset city dealing with this issue rather than with city-related issues; already on record on Iraq, don't need this issue, shouldn't insult Marines - ineffective in goal; we should apologize to city of Berkeley for time and embarrassment on this issue
Capitelli: took a day or two to realize made a mistake; meant to communicate opposition to war and support for those opposing it, but mistakenly undermined Marines; believes in apology, but it is not due to consequences of threats from anyone
Worthington: upset about media coverage - claims there's never been a resolution passed to be rescinded; argues that his beliefs were in place even before the vote that this action wasn't productive
Moore's my councilman. Just said he changed his mind and will vote for the substitute. Pretty boring.
Moore: plans to support motion to never send initial letter, supports rights of recruiters in Berkeley, supports rights of groups in Berkeley to support recruiters
Spring: [sick, by phone, sounding like Yoda] agrees with Anderson, gov't doesn't have freedom of speech like individuals do; blah, blah, blah [lost interest..] torture and Enron, Exxon and School of Americas...
Maio: Failed leadership, torture issue, poor veterans programs, etc means we cant accept recruitment without saying something; yet we "love" our soldiers; should have looked at language we passed closer; oppose recruitment, not military men and women
And that's it for me tonight. I'm sure you'll get the final decision at sfgate.com in the morning... (unless someone else is kind enough to take up the torch)
HAHAHA. OK so the feed was just cut and now it's KPFA at 1AM. I guess I really was done anyway...
wtf..video just cut out for me at 1:00am.
now some random music.
it came back.
The vote (though, they didn't appear to know exactly what they were voting for):
Anderson: Yea
Bates: Yea
Capitelli: Yea
Maio: Yea
Moore: Yea
Olds: No
Spring: Yea
Worthington: Yea
Wozniak: No
and with that, i'm out.
Ok, vote was 7-2 in favor of the main motion, with some substitution.
Two voted no because no apology language included.
Vote to include apology language failed, i believe it was 3 ayes, 1 no, and the rest absetention.
Lots of applause I think, that no apology language included.
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