PI/PS Day Blues
Despite all the criticisms of CDO that I've seen here, I've been offering them the benefit of the doubt since August. When a meeting with one of the counselors didn't answer any of my questions, I figured it was just that I hadn't known what to ask. Now, after PI/PS Day, I'm about ready to give up on the CDO.
Let me start by saying that some of the problems I encountered with PI/PS Day were my own fault. Instead of submitting resumes to the employers through both the online system and individually, I just did them online. I also only submitted resumes to a few employers, instead of the 15 or 20 or 40 that some people did. It would have been nice, however, if the CDO had told us that the employers had a strict quota system, accepting a set number of student interviews from each school, and that some employers, like the EBCLC, wouldn't accept Boalt interviews at all.
Then there was the logistical aspect of it. The waitlist table wasn't really a "waitlist" per se. It was a first come, first served set up, where you had to haunt the table if you wanted a spot at one of the popular groups. Meet the advocates was a little better. The two sessions were held in large, crowded rooms. Some of the advocates didn't even show up. Others were only there for a short time. There wasn't much of a chance to have a real conversation, since at any given time there was almost always a crowd around each table.
I'm curious if anyone actually got a job offer on the spot through Meet the Advocates. For that matter, I'm curious as to how many people got offers right after an interview.
Let me start by saying that some of the problems I encountered with PI/PS Day were my own fault. Instead of submitting resumes to the employers through both the online system and individually, I just did them online. I also only submitted resumes to a few employers, instead of the 15 or 20 or 40 that some people did. It would have been nice, however, if the CDO had told us that the employers had a strict quota system, accepting a set number of student interviews from each school, and that some employers, like the EBCLC, wouldn't accept Boalt interviews at all.
Then there was the logistical aspect of it. The waitlist table wasn't really a "waitlist" per se. It was a first come, first served set up, where you had to haunt the table if you wanted a spot at one of the popular groups. Meet the advocates was a little better. The two sessions were held in large, crowded rooms. Some of the advocates didn't even show up. Others were only there for a short time. There wasn't much of a chance to have a real conversation, since at any given time there was almost always a crowd around each table.
I'm curious if anyone actually got a job offer on the spot through Meet the Advocates. For that matter, I'm curious as to how many people got offers right after an interview.
Labels: OCIP/Employment
posted by Bekki at 8:25 AM
11 Comments:
I'm sorry you didn't get a job. As a non-PI/PS person, I don't know the intimate details of how the program works, but your post doesn't it sound like it is fair to blame the CDO for your woes. A simple email asking "how does PI/PS day work" would probably have answered most of your questions. And a few follow ups would certainly answer the rest.
Since don't know the PI/PS process, maybe you will be contacted soon. But to cover your bases, you might consider making another visit to the CDO to see how they can help you plan the next phase of your job search, rather than writing them off. I promise that you are better off with their resources and advice (even if you have to qualify it to match your own circumstances) than you are all on your lonesome.
Finally, do have some confidence: It's February. Unless you are unfortunate in a borderline-cosmic way, you WILL get some kind of job.
Is it just me, or does it seem like someone in the CDO actually wrote that comment at 12:43?
I never had anything to do with PI/PS day, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But it's my impression that people who were shut out of interviews on PI/PS day were still able to get interviews by contacting the organizations directly.
Quite frankly, Boalt students don't need PI/PS day to get summer internships. The whole reason for the quota system is to prevent Boalt and Stanford students from swooping in and being given all the interview slots.
I can't imagine why any organization would insist on only considering interns from PI/PS day. Why would they? If they were really interested in hiring all these Golden Gate law students instead of Boalties, then they wouldn't have the quota system in the first place.
12:43 here. Nope, I'm not from the CDO. But come to think of it, it does kind of sound like their canned responses, doesn't it?
Anyway, I am still sorry she didn't get a job right away, confident she probably will, and skeptical that blowing off the CDO is a wise course of action when the chips are down.
I don't think that the problem is "blam[ing] the CDO," it's more that the CDO tends to tout PI/PS as a sort of cure all for public interest and government work...and in reality, it's a mediocre meat market. CDO is good for finding firm jobs, decent for government jobs, and (I'm sorry to say) generally crap for public interest, private-public interest, and non-conventional firm jobs (labor/plaintiffs/impact lit).
My two bits for 1Ls is to more or less ignore the CDO*, focus on your own job hunt based on your own legwork and help from friendly 2Ls/3Ls. Mike is right - contact orgs directly. Look other groups up. Ask around about who hires. View PI/PS less as a solution and more like a general survey of the kinds of groups that are out there.
*Things CDO is good for: mock interviews, some job panels, and sometimes resume review. Other stuff, not so much.
(Then again, YMMV)
I attended PI/PS Day last year, and didn't have any trouble using the "waitlist" desk. Admittedly, the whole day is a bit of a cluster, but all relevant logistical information was available on the PI/PS website.
PI/PS day is for the birds. Anyone who got a job that way could've gotten the same job by sending in their resume without going through the hassle of registering and getting interviews from waitlists and the clusterf*$%# that is "meeting the advocates." The CDO just needs to point at something to prove its commitment to helping us find jobs in the public interest if we want them.
But the above commenter is correct. February is early. You are willing to work at no cost to the organization. Everyone who wants such a job will get one. And if, for some reason, no PI place wants you, there are still research assistant gigs. I hear those people only want to shoot themselves a little bit.
Because i'm sure someone from the CDO reads N&B, let me just say: thanks, guys, for doing what i'm sure is your level best to satisfy everyone's constant demands on your limited time and resources. There's a lot of griping, but let's get real - no one office is going to help all 750 of us find the absolutely perfect private/public/whatever interest job that many kids here seem to feel they are entitled to simply by virtue of going to Boalt.
Just to clarify - because Bekki appears to be taking a stab at the EBCLC when she says "some employers, like the EBCLC, wouldn't accept Boalt interviews at all." - the EBCLC actually has a hiring policy that is very favorable to Boalt students. Rather than a formal interview process, they allow Boalt students who apply to come through for an informal tour. At that tour, they explain that they reserve half their summer spaces for Boalt students, and that they make offers on an informal, rolling basis. (They don't say specifically whether this is a first-come, first-served process.) In exchange for all this, they don't interview Boalties at PI/PS. Really, they technically don't interview Boalties at all. So I wouldn't be down on the way EBCLC hires out of Boalt.
I went to PI/PS day and thought it was surprisingly well organized. I’d much rather spend one day in the city and get my interviewing over with than have to show up at Boalt in a suit every day of the week and BART around to individuals offices scattered all over the bay area.
But the CDO needs to work on getting more employers there – especially more of the competitive employers. A lot of those jobs are taken in December and early January by students ambitious enough to apply early and interview during exams. If CDO held the event earlier, and got some bigger names there they’d attract more students and then it might even be more attractive for the smaller orgs to show up too.
Anyway, I think CDO does the best with what they have: a small, underfunded, unorganized market for PIPS jobs. PI/PS day is a pretty good attempt to make the best out of a less than ideal situation. But maybe I’m biased - I just got my job offer.
In response to Bekki's question about people getting job offers from Meet the Advocates, I handed one employer at MTA my resume and got a job offer the following Wednesday, so it can and does happen.
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