Pleaded v. Pled
My UC-writing-teacher-friend shares:
Hey Patrick,
I regret to inform you that the difference between "pleaded and "pled" is that "pled" is not a word. The past tense/past participle of "plead" is "pleaded." Spell-check says its a word and maybe some dictionaries, but ask the OED and it's a no go. Which is a damn shame because [us] poets love those monosyllabic, loaded words.
Although the OED does not appear to treat "pleaded" in its relationship to the noun, "pleading" (as in a complaint), that is also not the sense in which "pled" is used in legal jargon. When we say, "Plaintiff pled y," what we mean is "plaintiff said in the complaint that y." We are using the term in the OED's past participle sense, as it relates to "plead," or "ask," or, "beg."
Armen suggests the same conclusion for the following reason: Think of it as the difference between "I couldn't care less" and "I could care less."
That's an argument I couldn't understand less, but maybe he was right after all?
You tell me.
Hey Patrick,
I regret to inform you that the difference between "pleaded and "pled" is that "pled" is not a word. The past tense/past participle of "plead" is "pleaded." Spell-check says its a word and maybe some dictionaries, but ask the OED and it's a no go. Which is a damn shame because [us] poets love those monosyllabic, loaded words.
Although the OED does not appear to treat "pleaded" in its relationship to the noun, "pleading" (as in a complaint), that is also not the sense in which "pled" is used in legal jargon. When we say, "Plaintiff pled y," what we mean is "plaintiff said in the complaint that y." We are using the term in the OED's past participle sense, as it relates to "plead," or "ask," or, "beg."
Armen suggests the same conclusion for the following reason: Think of it as the difference between "I couldn't care less" and "I could care less."
That's an argument I couldn't understand less, but maybe he was right after all?
You tell me.
Labels: Grammar Snarks
posted by Patrick Bageant at 3:03 PM
58 Comments:
I have no idea what your post, other than the quoted part, means. Pled is not a word. It's not the past tense or the participle of "to plead." For example, "Defendant pled guilty to the charge of murder." WRONG. "Defendant pleaded guilty to the charge of murder." The only reason people use pled is because words that sound similar to "plead" such as "read" and "lead" have an irregular past tense. I mean how can the past tense of "lead" be "led" but the past tense of "plead" not be "pled?" Well the origins of "plead" much like most other words used by the English judiciary are French in origin thanks to William the Conqueror (think "Plaintiff").
Point being, people [incorrectly] overuse "pled" when the right word is "pleaded," much like people saying "I could care less" when they really mean they couldn't care less. One is right, the other is common.
Armen, I'd say you're explanation of your own analogy is incomprehensible.
"I could care less" is just plain wrong. "I couldn't care less" is correct. They mean opposite things.
Plead and pleaded are getting at the same idea (whether or not one of them is wrong) and i don't think either is more common than the other.
Therefore, don't listen to armen.
I've got my New Shorter OED (Thumb Index Edition) open right now to page 2248. There it is: pled, with its own entry.
"pled v. pa t. & pple; see plead"
Then when you flip back to page 2246, you find that both pleaded and pled can be used as past tense.
I'm not writing a bloody SAT analogy question. The point is pled is one of the millions of incorrect uses of a word that I commonly encounter. Who cares if it's the exact opposite of pleaded? What the hell does that have to do with anything? The only thing I'm pointing out is that pled is commonly used, and it's wrong. See also, "please RSVP," "if all goes well," "begs the question" (props to Patrick for correctly using it in the other thread), etc.
The Merriam-Webster Dictionary also says that "pled" is fine for the past tense.
*NOT the exact opposite...
Ugh, one of those days.
"Only WHO can prevent forest fires?"
Two buttons marked "you" and "me." Bart presses "you."
"You pressed you, implying me. The correct answer is you."
Whenever I'm making these kinds of arguments, I point out that the lexicographer's job is simply to reflect our usage of a word. When I'm on the other side, I quote Ambrose Bierce's "The Devil's Dictionary."
DICTIONARY, n. A malevolent literary device for cramping the growth of a language and making it hard and inelastic. This dictionary, however, is a most useful work.
Not quite sure what I'm jumping into here, BUT.
I've used both and I prefer "pled".
this is 3:46. Armen, don't get so defensive, aren't you supposed to be billing?
Pled is not in Blacks.
That is all.
Let's see if I have it straight.
When it comes to "hillbilly," Armen is a Brennan-style, loose construction, let-it-breathe-and-grow type.
When it comes to "pled," Armen is a Scalia-style, tight construction, dont-let-new-usages-flourish type -- except that he's all wrong on the original history of the word. Very Scalia-esque in every aspect!
Someone else beat you to it by e-mail 4:24. =) I'll give you bonus points for the Scalia remark though.
It it just because I heart grammar that I totally understand Armen's post #1?? "Pled" is incorrect gramatically speaking, but is used so commonly that it is assumed correct. Just like people say "he was hung" or "he hung himself" when the correct past-tense of "hang" in that circumstance is "hanged" (ok, totally morbid example, but whenever I hear it it drives me crazy). The incorrect word is used so often that many believe it is right.
Anyway, it's the same with "pled" and "pleaded." You could probably get away with saying "pled" in your classes or even in court. But you'll be gramatically incorrect.
cf.
"She's smarter than him."
"*Ring ring!* Who is it?"
"It's me, Jane!"
"Who did you see when you entered the store at 8 o'clock yesterday?"
"Go back from whence you came!"
Thank you 5:12. Picture is hung, person is hanged (well, sometimes hung also applies).
Just last week, I had a staffer at the firm say expresso instead of espresso. I fumed to myself for 30 minutes then decided to let it go. I didn't want to come off as a pompous prick (any more so than usual).
Well, hell. Now I am confused as ever. Again.
(I wonder if I can write my entire WOA brief in the present tense so as to avoid the dilemma entirely . . . )
@5:57--someone said "expresso" and you let it GO??? But you must be SO MAD!!!
Remember when this blog was about Boalt? Me neither.
I think bickering about pled vs. pleaded and analogizing dictionary appreciation to supreme court justices is, in fact, VERY Boalt, 9:45.
I'm coming late I guess.
I had always heard pled, and thought it was right. Recently I've heard pleaded a lot and it finally bugged me enough to look into it.
I've decided to use the phrase "entered plea of" instead in anything formal. At least I know that's correct.
Oops,
"entered a plea of"
-Thomas
*we* poets, not "us poets."
EKspresso is actually a perfectly acceptable pronunciation for that beverage, most likely because it indicates the true prefix of the word, ex-, out of.
Expresso is 100% and unquestionably always INCORRECT. It is ALWAYS "espresso", which is how it is pronounced in the language of the place of origin of the beverage: italian.
Hi, I just stumbled upon this when looking for the proper usage - pleaded or pled. Um, y'all are hilarious! I appreciate the intensity of Armen's thoughts and I would love to be 100% perfect with all of my writing, but reality can be a female dog.
Just realize that, whether you use pleaded or pled, the judge will know what you mean and probably won't penalize you for using the word *s/he* thinks is incorrect.
Also, Armen, I think you should consider a libel lawsuit against the B-tard who likened you to Scalia. Some things are just unforgivable. ;)
For more on this subject, check out http://www.cjr.org/resources/lc/pleadguilty.php
To think, we come to this great nation from the south in a most precarious fashion to learn the language and adapt to the culture. Funny thing is, I didn't realize how much more I have to learn. I'm still working on pronouncing "chair" with a cha...cha.
I think Armen is trying to provide us with a less embarrasing situation during small talk at social gatherings. Take it as such. What's the old addage "Never argue with a fool...
Besides, court TV or True TV never uses pled...and as convenient some of you may think it is, it is still incorrect.
Pleaded sucks
I am a a fairly well edjamacated individual if I do say so myself and quite honestly I am disgusted with the word 'pleaded' when used used instead of 'pled'.
'So-and-so pleaded guilty...' simply sounds un-right. A waste of a syllable and completely non-rhythmic by all counts. The word pleaded just rings of illiteracy. If a word, ANY WORD, becomes adopted by another language then it will follow the rules of it's new parent language. Period. I don't care where it came from or what language adopted it.
Anyone who disagrees with me is of course entitled to their opinion however wrong and stupid it might be.
For another take on this: http://www.cjr.org/resources/lc/pleadguilty.php, apparently pled has its own fairly respectable lineage (a la Blackstone)
At the ripe old age of 56, I have found that the use of 'pled' was much more popular than the distinctly less melodic 'pleaded' in years past. I noticed a strong upswing in the popular usage of 'pleaded' a few years ago and found it annoying- to a point where I have done some investigation. All of you are wrong who say 'pled ' is not a word or is being used incorrectly. The changing of popularity does not render the "older" usage wrong, just out of style. Much the same as the change of Peking to Beijing or Bombay to Mumbai or Mao Tse Tung to ... well you get the idea.
Jesus - why do we communicate at all?
In Scotland it is pled
Regarding the espresson comment (even though I am over a year late.)
I do say espresso with a 's.' And I do so because that is how it is supposed to be pronounced according to the rules of italian pronunciation...but I live in America. When we borrow a word from another language we can pronounce it however we want. So I say espresso and they say eXpresso and only time will tell who wins. (Anyone want to place bets?)
Furthermore, these long squabbles over language occur because the rules of language are obscure. There is not a complete official guide and if there were one, what would make it correct? The real rules of language are based on various facts about how are brains work. Last time I checked no one knew them, but I don't follow this stuff so closely.
I really appreciate this information. As a correspondent, I really want to use words and sayings properly in my submissions. My degree is in child development so I feel a bit under-educated in journalism. English is a wonderful, and complicated,language. In my opinion, making a simple mistake such as using pled vs. pleaded gives the writer a little less credibility. Thank you for the lesson!
pled
North American, Scottish, or dialect past participle of PLEAD.
plead
• verb (past and past part. pleaded or N. Amer., Scottish, or dialect pled) From OED.
Armen's entire argument is incorrect.
It's a word.It sounds better.
Get over it.
since you folks are splitting proverbial grammatic hairs:
"The real rules of language are based on various facts about how are brains work"
"Are" should be "our" as we are dealing with matters of posession as opposed to a conjugation of to be...
carry on.
Okay, I have to do this. I said I wouldn't, but I simply must.
I came here after using Dogpile to find the correct usage of plead/pled/pleaded, like most of you previous posters. Forget pled/pleaded arguments, I've started seeing "plead" used as past-tense verb, as in pronounced, "pled". So color me confused.
Now, this whole espresso thing. Yes, when a word is adopted, it follows the rules of it's new language. However, it's spelling, unless otherwise expressed (get it?) stays the same. It's not spelled expresso, therefore it cannot be pronounced correctly as such. It's spelled "espresso". Much like idiots these days who say "aksed" instead of "asked" or "ecscape" as opposed to the correct pronunciation, "escape". It's not acceptable, no matter how liberal your leanings.
Don't excuse ignorance, you only encourage it.
Plead, pronounced as "pled", is correct. Pleaded may not be entirely incorrect but anyone who says that pled is a good word is in fact correct. The sound of the word pleaded has no elegance and sounds almost uneducated.
So we should all feel empowered when we write NPR and suggest that they change their ways and say "pled".
Pled is how I was educated and I confirmed that my pronunciation was correct when I asked an English teacher.
So Armen, thank you for this forum for discussion. I just wanted an answer. What I got was confusion mixed in with some comedy. Actually I got a lot of comedy. Your argument has passion but alas it isn't correct. I wish you luck in the future though.
I now call the forum on the past tense of plead closed.
Haha, I came here after repeatedly hearing "pleaded" on NPR, actually (assuming "pled" was perfectly fine).
Even if "pled" didn't exist at some point, it certainly exists in modern usage now. All languages grow and change throughout the time they exist. No languages are born in a day with their entire vocabularies set in stone. This came about because it belongs perhaps to (now) several dialects and, in the dialects in which this word is used (or, at least in mine), its usage is grammatically correct.
Poop balls lolol
bottom line is that you are all amazing losers. who gives a fuck? honestly?
Your writing instructor friend has a grammar error in the note. The sentence, "Spell-check says its a word and maybe some dictionaries..." is missing an apostrophe in the word "it's".
Scotland's usage of the word pled dates back to the 15th century. You know Scotland? It's in Britain, where the English language comes from. Americans can change our words all they like doesn't make them right. Let's not forget they also decided to drop 'u' out of half the words and change programme to program and tonne to ton, and travelling to traveling. WRONG.
Actually, Scotland's language is Celtic -- you got your English usage from the same place we did. England.
They stuck it to you as relentlessly as they stuck it to your women for generations, and you took it just as eagerly as did your great, great, great grandmothers.
So, as far as I can see, the only difference the two of us is this: we won our revolution.
So, kindly, go fuck yourself. And include as man "U's" as you deem appropriate.
Scotland is indeed "in Britain, where the english language comes from" . . . but Scotland's blood language is Celtic -- you got your English usage from the same place we did.
England.
The difference between us comes in the 18th Century, when Scotland was seeking unity with England and its language (i.e., were being conquered) and we were wining a revolution and our independence.
I would say that gives us every right to deploy our "U's" as we best see fit.
QUOTE from 3/10/2010, 11:27 AM: Plead, pronounced as "pled", is correct. Pleaded may not be entirely incorrect but anyone who says that pled is a good word is in fact correct. The sound of the word pleaded has no elegance and sounds almost uneducated. END QUOTE
What "sounds" correct is a matter of opinion, and opinions are like holes in people's bottoms in that "everybody has one."
Here is mine: People who use the word "pled" sound illiterate to me. "Pleaded" sounds far more elegant., but then again, this is one person's opinion.
I do, however, find it amusing that some people will use their opinions to determine what is correct usage. Ah, the world is filled with narcissists--the Internet just allows more of us to come out of the closet than in real life.
P.S. I did not know that words can sound educated--I thought only people can. I suppose I stand corrected by this anonymous poster.
In an attempt to piggyback on the "espresso" argument, I present another pet peeve of mine: the incorrect pronunciation of the word "bruschetta." It is not "Broo-SHETTA," but it is, in fact, "Bru-SKET-ta." The "illiterati" run amok in American restaurants.
Pronunciation is based on the language being spoken-or are the Spanish wrong for calling him Jesus (as per the commercial... bad example)... What was his name in HIS language? Right... but we dob't refwr to him as such... What was said about how 'we' say things?
Correct, 9:31. And the langauge in question here is "legalese." So, you tell me: which word to the legals use in their language?
Keep Joshua out of this.
I would agree with all of you, but as somebody decided to cite the OED I think it is important to mention that as educated people we have all learned that language is a convention. As such it is important for us to understand that 'words' only mean what they mean as long as we all agree as to what they mean, and there is no definitive answer to what any word means. Given this, we can all agree that both usages of the term are equally represented, and as such have equal validity. If we are to use the OED as evidence of how a term should be used, it would become very clear, in a very short amount of time, that none of us could understand each other, (not for sake of the difficulty of language, but for the sake of variety of it). It seems odd then that we would argue over such a trivial issue, when it is clear that the rules of the language we study over night and day dictate that it simply happens...
Although this person may be correct, there's a punctuation error in the first sentence of their letter, making their point completely invalid.
I am responding to a motion to dismiss and cannot seem to figure out whether "Plaintiffs' complaint is well pled" is correct. I can't seem to find general agreement in this dialogue. Are there lawyers in this dialogue who frequently use "well pled" and feel it is okay? Plaintiffs' complaint is "well pleaded" just sounds awful. let me know.
I stand by my initial comment from over 4 years ago. Pleaded is correct, pled is more common.
But as an aside, I can't say I like the phrase "Plaintiff's complaint is well-pled/pleaded" in any context. What does that add? "Plaintiff's complaint contains the correct font." I mean, let the thing speak for itself. Get to your argument. Does it contain detailed allegations establishing every element of defendant's malfeasance? Yada, yada, yada.
Perhaps there is a post in this thread that addresses this and I mised it. If so, please forgive my oversight.
“Plead” ought be used rather than the very clumsy “pleaded” as the past tense of "plea."
Some spell this, quite phonetically, as “pled.” As I am not Al Capp and this is not Dogpatch, I do not. Once one has completed reading a book, one has neither “readed” nor “red” a book.
One may not have "readed" nor "red" a book, but one may have heeded, needed, seeded, or kneaded.
I believe that both pled and pleaded are commonly accepted because they are both used with the same meaning intended. Usage doesn't always make something right, nor does it make it wrong.
I prefer pleaded, but that might be because I grew up with a lawyer who made irregular appearances as my father.
Signed... Anonymous Me
'Pled' is commonly used, its meaning is clear, and it makes sense. so it is a word.
life is too short for pointless fussiness.
bill ob
Here's what I think is the problem: The past-tense of "plead" (rhymes with bleed), is "plead" (rhymes with shed).
Ok, I know I'm way late on this board, but I always thought it was "plead, pleaded, pled". IE pled was the past imperfect. Am I wrong?
I think one one the things that fucks us up as we move into this transition from daily orality to practical literacy , as in social media sites like this one, is the quirky quality of confused spelling conventions when we confront this glorious mixed-blood bastard English language. People earnestly spell "led" (past tense of "lead") "lead" like the element, or the graphite stuff inside the pencil.
Some of us powerful (!) -not really - English majors may gef flinchy about this. But listen: People have things to say - in several media.
) English majors flinch, I know, when we encounter these peccadilloes, but - hey -
(Eh - sorry - first day of the FALL term -- if we feel ourselves falling too fast, let's prop each other up.)
Captcha hath kilt me. Discarded my careful remark about literacy and earnest orality. Fuck the "social media" and their profit-driven little gates like Captia, which excludes non-sales people who just want to say something - not sell some (possibly competitive) something. Little gates -
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