Lessons 1Ls Either Should Have Learned or Should Be Prepared For…
First of all, congratulations to all 1L’s on finishing the first 1/6 of your legal education. To all those 3Ls who are one semester away from it being over, my condolences ahead of time.
Here I will impart to 1Ls (and really slow 2Ls and 3Ls) a few things about law school that you will likely learn on your own someday, but will help you much more if you can grasp early on. For some people, these ideas never sink in. These people are determined to define life as a struggle. I cannot reach these people.
First, the classroom. By now you have probably experienced the much ballyhooed “Socratic method”. Look, it is complete bullsh*t. It need not cause anyone an ounce of anxiety. The sharp ones out there have already figured this out: if you get cold-called in class and proceed to make an absolute ass of yourself, there are ZERO consequences for your grade. Sure, maybe you feel embarrassed or disappointed in yourself, but these stem from your own vanity and conceit and have nothing to do with your grade (do away with those and you will be forever better off, but that is another story). Behold, the beauty of anonymous grading! Your grades in almost every class in law school will be 100% the result of a the mixture of your final exam plus randomness (see below). So enjoy the opportunity to make crap up on the fly when you are cold-called and generally unprepared. This will much better prepare you for real practice, when you will frequently have to act way more prepared than you actually are, than will investing way too much time preparing for class by boning up on useless case law.
Second, reading. If you are really hung up about doing the casebook reading, you are wasting your time. If you don’t know this yet, you will once your grades come out (see below). For certain classes maybe it is helpful…but for the most part, you can read a case brief, get the gist, and then go enjoy some free time. There is nothing wrong with reading assigned case law, if you can, but don’t fall into the trap of thinking it is necessary and making yourself crazy in order to do 100% of it.
Third, grading. You will find out your first semester grades sometime before you graduate. Maybe even before March. Your grades are, for the most part, random. Professors will read your exams with varying degrees of attention. For the smaller classes, sure, they will scrutinize more, and good work is likely to get rewarded. But for the huge 1L classes, here is what will happen.
The professor will read your exam and quickly recognize it as one of three types. The first type is the really well written, reasoned, top-notch law exam. That exam will be considered for an HH, depending on how many others fall into this group.
The second type is the really poor exam, missing important issues; lacking facility with legal reasoning; and poorly organized. However, this is not a “sub-P”; rather, as long as there is SOME evidence of the student having attended class, this student will get a P.
Then there is the third group of papers falling in the middle. Not superb, not brilliant, but quality. These will be all so similar, that the professor will give them a very cursory reading and have little ability to rank the exams against each other. Most of the papers will be P’s, but some will creep into the H range depending on the size of the first category.
So, the professor will either (a) throw the papers down the stairs and rank them according to how they fall; (b) have his/her 3 year old decide how to rank the papers; or (c) ask Zoltar how to rank each paper. (Option (c) is unlikely, because of the required investment in quarters).
I know some of you will find this incredible. Others of you are going to write exams that fall into the first category. But for the rest of us, the results will demonstrate my point here. You will either believe it, or you will resist it and keep overworking and stressing about your grades as if they really correlated to your stress level and work ethic. But if you can take this lesson to heart now, don’t find it despairing. Do not be disappointed; be uplifted, for it is a blessing. You do not need to worry about your grades, because you are mostly going to be in the random category anyway, so find fun and productive and edifying ways to spend your time in law school. Get involved in a clinic. Get into yoga. Make moonshine in your bathtub. Organize the 2nd Annual Unofficial Boalt Hall Paintballing Extravaganza (for those who were at it last year, you know it was freakin’ amazing, and you’re welcome; carry the torch, and I promise to show up). Try and get laid for once. Do something interesting for once.
The randomness of grading, and thus the insanity of really investing much hope in good grades, also allows you all to focus on the classes that really matter. Anyone who has taken the bar exam and/or worked in the field can tell you most of your classes are largely irrelevant to either the bar exam or working as a lawyer. Of course the 1L classes are on the bar exam, but you will be re-learning these subjects in whole for the bar exam, and especially for criminal law and property, they will be very different beasts. Your success on the bar exam will have almost no correlation with how hard you worked on those subjects as a 1L. To the contrary, your success at a job will be related to how well you can write. So you probably don’t want to blow off LRW or WOA. Yeah, they are undervalued, unit-wise. But your other grades are random, and those classes don’t matter for sh*t, so you might as well give a little more attention to LRW and WOA.
(In my opinion, beyond 1L year, the most bar-helpful classes are evidence, civil procedure II (you be a fool if you don’t take it), and criminal procedure. A bonus is that these subjects are not especially difficult.)
Two important points are worth mentioning here. First, if you want to clerk, my comments about grades not mattering do not really apply to you. Grades definitely matter for that.
Second, some of you might be wondering whether grades matter more today because of the economic clusterf*ck in which we are mired. I think there is some merit to this, but it should not be overstated. Firms are hiring fewer people right now, and will naturally gravitate towards students with better grades. That said, there are counterbalancing factors here. First, law firms may have a better idea of how they are faring by next August, when they will start looking at your transcripts. Hopefully things will look better by then. Second, whether you care about your grades or not, your grades are most likely random…this is in beautiful harmony with the utter chaos of the universe in general. Learn to love it. If you do, besides being more attractive to nihilists, the energy you can divert to other interesting activities (both school-related and otherwise) will also make you seem more interesting to law firms.
DZ, OUT!
51 Comments:
Post of the year, DZ. Hands down.
You only forgot one piece of 1L advice: You are the expert on your own life -- there is no one else. So, don't listen to 2L/3L/4L's either.
. . . Unless they are giving up a prized bathtub moonshine recipe, or their phone number.
You shall no longer take things at second or third hand,
nor look through the eyes of the dead, nor feed on the spectres in books,
You shall not look through my eyes either,
nor take things from me,
You shall listen to all sides
and filter them from your self.
DZ wrote: "Your success on the bar exam will have almost no correlation with how hard you worked on those subjects as a 1L."
No, but for the class of '07, there was a very strong correlation with class rank and bar passage.
I'm too full of leftover pie to much rouse myself, but just a thought:
There's a lot of cynicism in this post -- especially corrosive cynicism, I think. With all respect to the author, I'd like to give our profs (and students) a little more credit and suggest they actually do read the exams, and care about trying to distinguish the quality of them.
Yes, there is a lot of randomness. But suggesting that the difference between a H and P is simply a matter of chance does a disservice to kids who DO care, and work hard, and manage to bring home good grades with some consistency. That's not chance. That's earning it.
So let's get over this asinine "it's uncool to care about your grades at Boalt" thing, and stop disparaging kids who do make a habit of going to class, and doing the reading (presumably instead of doing something that you snidely describe as "interesting for once"). What is uncool, _absolutely_ uncool, is to be a competitive d*ck about your grades in front of other students. Part of what makes Boalt so freaking awesome is that those kids don't fare well here at all. But there is nothing wrong whatsoever with caring about how you do, and trying to do well.
This comment has been removed by the author.
8:37....
It is not uncool to care about your grades. Nowhere did I say you should not care about your grades. Nowhere. The closest I came to saying that was referring to "the insanity of really investing much hope in good grades." I stand by that. Maybe that is a fine line, but I think one can care about his or her grades (I certainly did) without stress or disappointment pending the outcome.
Nor do I disparage people who go to class.
Also, nowhere do I suggest not trying your hardest. At all. The lesson is to invest your energy where it will have the biggest payback. I do not suggest not trying your hardest; I only say that the psychological investment of expecting good grades is insanity. That is the lesson for 1Ls. Go with the flow and you will be happier.
In fact, I point out two reasons to care about your grades (clerkships, and the growing difficulty getting a job).
I understand your point, but I am not one of the people you mean to target.
Oh, and the difference between many an H and P is a matter of chance.
Happy New Year!
And Patrick is right. Do not listen to 4L's. We're a ragtag, holier-than-thou bunch of pricks with nothing good to do on Saturday nights.
A few thoughts.
1. Despite what some think, I'm not a Socratic Method apologist. I would particularly stress that (a) it's not embarrassing to be completely wrong and (b) it's important to remember that none of this will affect you grade.
2. Grades are rough tools, and often unpredictable. But I wouldn't describe them as "random." In the aggregate, they tend to reflect the work and attention invested. To be honest, I think the people who think that grades are random tend to be the same people that don't think it's important to read cases/take notes/create outlines.
3. I'm not saying that you should be freaking out about grades, of course. Everyone has to admit that there are some students that work harder than them, and other students that work less. It's up to each student to decide how many they want in each category. And you know, "typical" students are going to get "typical" grades. So it's not a failing to not be at the top of the class. Welcome to the club--there are a lot of us.
4. As someone has already pointed out: there's apparently a massive correlation between grades and bar passage--at least there was in 2007. It's not really a correlation to good grades, per se, but bad grades. Basically, if you are at the bottom of the class, then you're not doing something right; you're probably not going to do the bar study right, either. In other words: it's not a big deal if you have mediocre grades. It might be a big deal if you have bad grades (all P's in the first semester, or maybe one H).
5. Firms care about grades; there's no point about saying otherwise. If you're grades weren't particularly good this semester (again, we're talking all Ps here), then you should actually try to focus on that. Quite frankly, if you are interested in a firm job for after law school (as most people are), and you have all Ps in your first semester, then forget about clinics or extra-curriculars or anything else that you think "looks good." Really, nobody cares. Try and improve your grades.
6. Paragraphs, paragraphs, paragraphs!
I would add that your first semester grades are not necessarily indicative of your law school performance as a whole. Although not necessarily "random," some (like myself) had trouble adjusting to the law school model, but were able to make up for mediocre 1L fall grades and have no problem in 2L OCIP.
I think the tone of DZ's post was perhaps a bit aggressive, but hey, that's writing! I agree most fundamentally with two key pieces of advice: 1) Don't worry about caselaw; 2) Don't worry about getting cold-called.
Law school isn't easy, but people make it SO MUCH HARDER by freaking out about every little thing. Exams are the ONLY things you should worry about, because they determine your final grade. Like exclusively. I would never fault anyone for skipping a movie or having a minor freakout on account of exams. But I have never understood why anyone would stay in on a Saturday night to finish the reading for Monday. That is maybe ok if your prof has an on-call list and you're next, but otherwise, it's simply ridiculous.
Either "aggressive" or "sarcastic." I'm pretty sure DZ is not actually suggesting that professors literally employ a random system...that is just the apparent outcome.
It is fun to see people get riled up though...probably the same people who equate "caring" with worrying, stressing, etc.
'08 grad here. Passed the bar without taking Civ Pro II, which DZ says you're a fool not to take. Didn't take Evidence, either, which is another course bandied about as essential for bar passage. Maybe I was a fool not to take them, but not fool enough to fail the bar exam, and neither subject ever comes up in the actual legal work I do. I have the books for the classes I took instead of these mainstays in my office, and they are actually consulted from time to time.
So to throw in my own biased advice to 1Ls, on top of the largely very good stuff said already, is don't believe anyone who says you absolutely have to take such and such. Take what you want to take, and don't take anything that you suspect would suck out your will to live (e.g., Civ Pro II).
And one more thing. Don't get depressed if your grades are less than stellar this year, or even if they suck compared to the high standard you obviously set for yourself in order to get into Boalt. After this year you can start taking classes that are relevant to what you want to do and that interest you more, and you will likely do better. I finished in the top half of the class despite getting almost all Ps first year -- including straight Ps in fall. I passed the bar; I make $160K/yr. Of course I hate my job, but I knew that was coming....
Great post DZ. I always assumed I wasn't easy, but I agree with everything. I'm aware this may qualify me as a cheap date.
About the comment noting the correlation between class rank and bar passage. Am I not aware of some sort of class rank system? I guess I shelved my cynicism enough to accept it when the told us they don't rank here. If this is the case, then how would a correlation between rank and passage be possible? I assume it went something along the lines of "Man I failed! What grades you get? P's. Haha... noob."
I know it's convenient to put weight in such an analysis, because it emphasizes what we want to hear, but don't take such analysis as gospel. I'm still not convinced that all the honors given out here are deserved, and are indeed the product of some degree of randomness. It seems more plausible to me that bar passage is much more dependent on BarBri efforts than 1L classes.
Toney, of course you're ranked. But you can only use that information for clerkships and academic positions. In my class, no one in the top third failed the bar. A handful in the second third. And majority of bar fails were in the bottom third.
Re '08 Grad:
I definitely did not, nor would I claim that any class is "essential" to bar passage. Actually not at all. I only offered a list of classes in case people wanted to tailor their curriculum to the bar specifically. I really think taking only classes you actually want to take is a good approach, and one I generally followed.
That said, it was really lucky for many people that neither evidence nor civ pro was on the bar exam...not only because some didn't take those classes, but because the California rules added a layer of complexity that was a bit daunting. Taking the classes would not have helped directly for the CA stuff, I guess, but at least it cuts down on the learning curve for those. And thee two subjects WILL be on a bar exam at some point.
The "fool" comment is also inspire by the fact that it is practice-relevant; but this is overstating it, I'll admit. Also, my opinion only applies to taking the class if taught by Bundy. DJ De Novo for life!
Re class ranking.... this is not really discussed enough. Although there was a strong correlation between bar passage and LOW RANK (lower 1/3 = 50% passage or something ridiculous like that), this masks a serious problem with the whole idea of ranking students according to their letter grades (P/H/HH) for each class. It is a problem of statistical stratification.
Each P grade corresponds to anywhere from the lowest grade in a class to the 60th percentile (I think?) in a class. But class rank only considers the "P" as a "P", and not the actual rank within the class. So, at the extreme, it is possible for a student to be in the 59th percentile for every class he/she ever takes at Boalt, but get all P's and therefore have the WORST class rank possible without any sub-Ps. A pretty broke system, really.
And before anyone chimes in saying that this is inherent in any grading system, yes that is true but generally to a much, much, MUCH lower degree. When you have A+/A/A-/B+/B, etc., instead of the huge "P" range, you have much finer resolution for each grade and thus do not lose nearly as much information about each student.
That said, I would not change Boalt's grading system. The rankings only affect students who want to get a clerkship, and they are not "P" students and do not fall prey to the above problem very much.
DZ - There's also the problem of determining where your P would fall in an A/B/C scale. It's not far fetched at all for more than 40% of the class to get a 91% or higher on an exam. In such a case, a P could be equivalent to an A-, and only a few percentage points would separate Ps, Hs, and HHs. Conversely, if you had a class with final grades similar to some of my more advanced electronics courses, the highest grade in the class would be a 55%. It's tough to map over a conventional ABC system to a P, H, HH system in such cases, and they aren't all that uncommon (though they may be in law... who knows).
Anyway, is it possible to find out one's rank? Who do you ask? I would b curious to know.
And Armen - who gives the info regarding bar passage and class standing? Is that something the admin does for us?
Toney, no law school uses a conventional grading system. What's the point of trying to map our grades to conventional grades? Even if Michigan gives out A's and B's, those are all based on a curve and fairly easily map on to our own grades. And yes, the information came from DE.
And this is why I hate all grade talk. It tends to dominate any discussion and take away from DZ's important points.
Just a few more points:
1. To any 1Ls who find themselves with 3 Ps: don't get upset. It's only three classes. As DZ points out, it doesn't mean that you've done poorly; it just means that you haven't done well. You may want to improve your efficiency at exam preparation or exam writing. In fact, a lot of 1L grade deviation is getting adjusted to writing exams in the "right" way (and keeping track of time).
2. I very much like the HH/H/P system at Boalt, even though it is potentially annoying to get the same "P" as someone else who's worked a lot less than you have. Boalt grades improve the law school culture.
3. I would REALLY recommend 1Ls to consider taking Civ Pro II or Con Law next semester. There's a reason that those two classes are required 1L courses in other schools. A lot of elective law school classes presuppose a working knowledge of due process and/or jurisdiction. If you avoid taking these classes, then the others will often be harder.
Besides, these classes (like Evidence) constitute part of the "vocabulary" of the legal profession. Even if they aren't a part of your future career path, other lawyers will expect you to understand them. Trust me--you really don't want to be the only lawyer who doesn't understand how hearsay or Erie works.
4. Tony: Dean Hirsen will email the 2L class next semester, offering to reveal class rank to those thinking about applying for clerkships. (Or alternatively, those willing to feign an interest in order to learn their class rank). You're told where you sit within a 5% percentile, with two exceptions. If you are in the bottom 50% of the class, then you are "unranked." (In other words: don't waste your stamps.) If you are among the top 10 people in the class, then you are told your actual rank.
The bar passage info. was provided by DE after a relatively bad year. I haven't seen them release any 2008 numbers. I assume that the administration can identify the "at risk" students fairly precisely, and intend to warn or prepare them individually.
in response to the question above, DE said that the top third of class rank passes the bar at 100%, the second third at 94%, and the third third at 51%.
Those numbers are from 2007. I think the stats for 2008 are much, much better. CA bar passage was quite high this time. And this applies to Boalt especially...I've only heard of a very very few people from 2008 who did not pass.
Armen is right about grades dominating discussion. The "lessons" of the post, although they could have been delivered more straightforwardly, was that 1Ls can choose to dispose of expectations, relax, and not worry or stress.
Also, the comment about about law firms really caring about grades is overstated. It is true, they DO, but I knew plenty of straight-P students who landed jobs. Some firms care much more than others. The problem now is that with the economy the way it is, firms are hiring fewer students and therefore are focusing more on getting top performers.
For those tuning in late, let me summarize a significant part of this thread:
a) Commenter characterizes DZ's statements in a completely legitimate way.
b) DZ counters by claiming that he didn't use the "exact word" that the previous commenter attributes to him, and then goes on to claim a weaker stance in order to still win the argument.
If you're going to make a post this strong, deal with the fact that people are going to have reasonable disagreements.
1:05 -
I completely disagree with such a characterization of this thread. A far better and less biased one follows: DZ makes several points, anonymous commenter comes in and says "you aren't considering XYZ", DZ says "I am considering XYZ" and then proceeds to list examples of such considerations, Toney hijacks thread by talking about rankings, then an anonymous comment mischaracterizes the thread in a crappy summary, evoking controversy that doesn't exist.
i think all 1Ls reading this would have been better off if this post + comments never occurred in the first place.
1:05...(are you also 8:37? Let it go!):
Ummmm, ok.... Thanks for contributing. And for keeping the post alive in a lovely, passive-aggressive manner.
I can deal with reasonable disagreements, and that is exactly what I did. I took the time to clarify; this is not trying to win anything, it is a discussion, and as I acknowledge in my post, certain folks will disagree with me.
The bottom line is, I never said it is uncool to care about grades. I explained the effects of the low resolution grade scale and how it means you do not have to WORRY about them or be disappointed by them. Far from saying it is uncool to try, I stressed that students should take a broad approach to getting the most from law school. (Go ahead, re-read paragraphs 10 & 11, but be alert, some of it is--gasp!--sarcastic and intentionally absurd). This positive, forward-looking outlook is an alternative to depending on high grades to feel good about law school.
1Ls, please do not despair if you end up with a lot of P's first semester. I got three P's my first semester and never got another one. Some of us just take a semester to get the hang of it.
This thread was counterproductive. I'm checking for my grades every day now.
Grades have nothing to do with how hard you work in law school -- that is the sad part. The classes for which I did all the reading and studied like crazy, I got Ps. I only started to do well when I figured out exactly how to take the law school exam. Unfortunately that didn't happen until 3L year.
9:12, same here. I'm a 3L and wish I had had lower expectations to begin with. This is the randomness DZ wrote about. Despite the comments about this post being counterproductive, the sooner the 1Ls hear about this possibility, the better. Sure, it may not be like that for everyone, but this is a VERY common refrain. So thank DZ.
Do folks who do well decry the "randomness" of grading? Or is it only people who tend to not do so well....
I do. I'm a 3L with roughly 1/3 HH, 1/3 H, and 1/3 P, consistently from one semester to the next, and I don't see a pattern as to why I got a certain grade in any class.
Oh, dear god. Let's not use this blog to compare transcripts. No offense, but it's neurotic, ego-aggrandizing, and entirely worthless.
Sorry Patrick! Just wanted to make the point that thinking that grading is random to some extent is not confined to those who don't do well. You can delete my last post.
How is anonymously posting one's grades "ego-aggrandizing"? Also, the post was not completely worthless. Why are the bloggers on this site such nazis?
"Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."
@ 12/28, 1:05--
HAHAHA! i was reading all the comments and was gonna make a similar observation. hysterical.
hey, DZ. these commenters don't have to prove what they believe you mean in your odd post "beyond a reasonable doubt." give them the credit they deserve as intelligent people and take the criticism of your annoying post without attempting to save face with your ridiculous counter-arguments.
you know exactly what you meant when you wrote it and, when someone points to one of your many absurd suggestions, you frantically look back at your mess of "facts" to find a way out because you either realize it was a logically stupid thing to write OR it made you seem, well, annoying.
why do people in every law blog find it necessary to quote the big lebowski?
Don't be fatuous 10:28.
9:12
so, you didn't learn how to write an exam correctly til later. so, you found out what your problem was. so, because of your ineffective writing, you couldn't have worked as hard as you thought you did and, hence, the bad grades.
armen,
(after i looked up "fatuous")
should i KNOW why law blogs quote it all the time?
You need to rewatch the movie. Clearly that one went over your head.
even one-worders are credited toward the ultimate law film?!?
i may need to watch again, if not just for the, "joo gotta date onn wennsday baby, WOOOOOH!!"
10:27...
Thank you for that bit of nastiness, and for contributing a quality response to what is now one of the most commented-on posts in a while.
Yeah the post was odd, but the truly funny thing about it is how defensive people get about disagreeing. The basic point of the post was fine, the delivery was absurd. But hey, keep the anonymous absurd-as-the-post fightin' words coming...
this is 10:27. you can basically tell because i don't capitalize SHIT! unless i want it read aloud in your head loudly.
comments by daniel that are funny for multiple reasons. i, for one, enjoy the emphatic second "sentence" in every quote the most (here, actually, is where daniel should have used teh caps lock).
1. "Nowhere did I say you should not care about your grades. Nowhere."
2. "Also, nowhere do I suggest not trying your hardest. At all."
3. "I definitely did not, nor would I claim that any class is "essential" to bar passage. Actually not at all."
unless i want it read aloud in your head loudly
My nominee for worst language construction of 2008. After reading this aloud in your head, try speaking it silently in your mouth.
I also have to agree with 1:05's summary of this thread. Just throwing out there that to an unbiased observer, that's really how all this comes across. Actually that's how a lot of threads come across. But it gives me something to read when I'm bored, so I'm not complaining.
aloud in your head loudly.
as opposed to aloud in your head softly.
makes sense to me.
Happy New Year, Boalt.
P.S. Who calls me "daniel"?
Okay, so neurotic/annoying/douchey/whatever question alert, but I feel like an anonymous blog comment might be the least obnoxious way to ask this. And this is the first post under "Grades and Other Neurotic Bullshit." So, you know, live and let live, hopefully. Or tell me to shove it. My question is this - if a prof emails you to let you know that you've gotten an award in the prof's class (am jur or prosser), at what point is that supposed to show up on bear facts or your transcript? Because the grades for this last semester got moved to "all grades" today, and it still hasn't shown up. Does anyone know how that works?
They take quite a while (read: sometime this summer) to show up online.
I was just about to ask the exact same question. That, and this: I was in a seminar of about 20 people, give or take. I got an HH. I haven't gotten an email about an AmJur or Prosser. But it seems like there'd only be two HHs, right? Do they give awards in those classes? Otherwise, what gives?
Hmmm . . . you HH is probably a mistake -- if I were you, I wouldn't stir the pot. ;)
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