What an HH Exam Looks Like
posted by Toney at 8:33 PM
Wednesday, December 17, 2008
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58 Comments:
If that is an HH, no wonder I get P's.
It's really, really good writing, eh?
Kind of a creative way to start writing a book, I guess.
The 'Socratic Method' piece was a little overdone.
So, why did this guy/gal decide to drop out?
"As a protest against the lunacy of the Socratic Method and the staggering lack of imagination on the part of the Boalt Hall administration in clinging to a cobwebbed curriculum, I will not be taking any final examinations this semester."
Oh, please. Seriously?
You just didn't like law school. You realized that people here are smarter than you. That it wasn't fun. Um, that's how we ALL feel, dude. Instead of inventing a moral high horse, just say you were uncomfortable, or say it wasn't for you, or say that this semester you "found yourself," or whatever it was. Your whiney protest against the school's curriculum, as though but for the shortsightedness of others you would still be here, is childish and weak.
Move on if that's what is best for you, and more power to you, but be a man about it.
A gentle reminder . . . no real names on this thread, please.
Thanks.
I agree that the Socratic Method "answer" was overdone, and I also think that, ironically, the attempt to not make the one prof feel bad made that one the more offensive exam to get.
Maybe it's that the effusive--"it pains me"--quality that makes it seem fake (there is no pain there), or that even acknowledging the person who is getting it makes it more personal, but I definitely think that's the result. Or maybe just because it's ABOUT professors?
I guess it just feels kind of selfish. Maybe I just don't understand the motivation....
10:47 - Way to get the joke. Dork. People like you give the rest of us law students a bad name.
And as far as "being a man for it" goes, how often do you get to go out with a bang like that? I've always wanted to, and yet I'm too much of a coward (and probably too responsible).
But seriously, there was more to dropping out than the Socratic method. Finals are over... lighten up!
Hm. Lighthearted and funny, or overly bitter?
I'm not quite sure how to react... maybe 45% 10:47, 55% Toney.
I don't get it. Socratic is no big deal. Am I crazy and it's a bigger deal than I think?
And I may be stoned for saying this, but law school really isn't that big of a deal either. I'm not saying it's easy, well actually yes I am.
I can't believe this person was a teacher...teaching, that's hard. I lasted a semester teaching. Law school is insanely easy (compared to teaching that is).
And everyone who comes to law school knows about socratic (if they do two seconds of research) and probably thinks it will be insanely hard. Boalt is cake compared to the image of law school portrayed in books and the internet.
I'm guessing this person just decided to cut their losses and drop out to pursue a writing career. Probably not a bad decision to make one semester in (much better than three or four)
The original rap was amusing in a gimmicky sort of way. The second song was tired. The latest shenanigans are childish.
What a tool.
This guy is a complete loser. First, if you are dropping out of law school why even go take the exam? If you hated your professors so much and wanted them to know about it be a man and go tell them.
Also, did this idiot not know what law school was before he went? Do a little research? It's not that hard.
Finally, I just don't think being a complete ass in life is something that people should applaud. I don't think law students who agree with this statement are dorks or need to lighten up. I'm pretty laid back and easy going myself and that was useless and rude for the most part. I just don't see the point.
Also, why did this person feel the need to post his law school exams? Completely pointless
Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's everyone
He wanted to go out with a bang. If you don't understand the concept behind and benefits to that, then I suppose it wouldn't make sense to you.
Also, I don't think someone qualifies as an "idiot" because he discovers law school isn't for him. That happens to a lot of people. Fortunately for him, he realized it during his first semester. Someone people don't realize it until 20 years into their career.
And if this isn't something you can laugh at, what is? I dream about doing something this insane, and here is someone that actually did it. It doesn't diminish you or your accomplishments any, so yes, lighten up a bit. You don't have to love it, but it's not necessary to call someone an idiot. And I still maintain that your original tirade is proof you just didn't get the joke.
You know, law is not for everyone. I commend him for realizing that early enough. While I enjoy it, I know plenty that don't.
Best of luck to you, and I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for.
I, for one, am still thankful for the dance videos.
Didn't call the guy an idiot for dropping out of law school. Actually, if that somebody's decision more power to them for finding out early. I called him an idiot for the way he did it and then sending it around as if something to be proud of.
I don't find being rude funny. I would have found that hilarious back in junior high or high school when I would have done the same thing.
It's great that you wish you could go out with a "bang". However, when somebody does so by being a d*** I don't see the humor.
I laugh at quite a bit in life, just am past the stage where I laugh at jokes when people are being rude.
Oh and 10:47 and 9:09 are not the same person.
10:47 and 9:09 here.
I am absolutely the same person.
@ author:
what do you mean by 1/2 of the guy?
9:09,
Where have you been for the last three years while I have been tearing my hair out at Boalt? Are you single? Are you lonely? Are you female? Does it matter? Could I just gently massage your thighs while you think it over?
-10:47
Sympathize with anyone frustrated by their choice to go to law school. But let's face it, amigo/a, it be your choice. Nobody be putting a gun to your head to make you go (...or did they? now THAT would be an interesting story).
Sack up and take a hit off the accountability hookah. The Socratic Method ain't the problem, brother, you is for blaming something outside yo bad self.
Found the crim law final's intro well done but the story was boring and a badly crafted rip-off of Fahrenheit 451 or 1984 or the Matrix or fill in the dystopic blank.
The best Network (the movie) moment I know about was when this kid from my high school (who was actually the Principal's son) took shrooms right before a final and then wrote: "I am on shrooms," like 500 times Jack Nicholson-style from the Shining. Now, that's cojones.
Wait... Fahrenheit 451, 1984 and the Matrix are completely different. And further, the writing style of the crim law final was nothing like any of them. Are you referring to science fiction generally?
It was more like an Asimov short. I suggest "the last question" if you want a good one (probably my favorite story of all time).
I'm as for light-hearted and good-natured humor as anyone else. What's more, I actually feel like an outcast in law school at times because of how little it stresses me out and how much I actually enjoy the school and people.
With that said, this guy is an idiot (sorry Toney, he is) and might be making a good choice by leaving us. I don't want to be too dramatic, but by his antics, he has made a mockery of the institution. Given, he may not like his professors or the curriculum, but it is a slap in the face for the professors who have to read this crap after sifting through 100 other exams. And what about the other 272 1Ls who were working their butts off during this time that he was trying to be funny by writing a horribly composed piece of sci-fi/satire/crap.
If he wanted to drop out, he should have just done so. By doing this, he doesn't go out like a champ. He goes out making a fool of himself.
P.S. I still loved the first video though. The second one, not so much.
Why is Toney sticking up for this guy, claiming this anonymous exam taker went out with a bang?
His attempt to go out with a bang is as self-serving as the very thing he rails against. Actually, I would say writing that for an exam and then posting it on the internet is more egotistical than the Socratic method.
And his arguments for why the Socratic method doesn't work are as flawed as the alternative he suggests.
And I hope those aren't the actual exams he turned in because he couldn't even figure out how to properly put on a heading. haha
I am "sticking up" for him because it is damn funny. Seeing how upset some of the people here are when it has exactly zero impact on them (unless you are in this guy's class, in which case it actually benefits you by raising everyone's percentiles up by about 3%) is exactly what he is making fun of. People here take themselves too seriously, which adds fuel to the air-of-entitled-arrogance flames that law students stereotypically have. That is why I am ok with something like this "making a mockery of our institution" or whatever, and indeed think it goes beyond that into the realm of absurd humor.
And again, if you think this was a sincere rail against the Socratic method, 1) you missed the joke, and 2) make sure you relax during break. Indeed, if you didn't like it, calm down - it doesn't affect you.
Toney, I think you're very misguided. As other commenters above adequately explain, the conduct here is essentially a very selfish attempt at attention getting. But because it was done as part of an exam, it harms the integrity of the exam process, the school, its students, alumni, and the whole profession. One of your duties is to uphold the dignity of the profession. He falls squarely short of that. If he wanted to keep making movies making fun of law school? Fine. If he wanted to start a blog about it, fine. But this crosses a line. I wouldn't exactly try to live vicariously through him.
And I say this, as I'm sure you are aware, as one of the foremost proponents of the sillier aspects of Boalt. This is just a selfish cry for help done in a very disrespectful manner.
I also think this was in poor taste. I had Professor Z for crim, and was by no means anything resembling a fan; that said, show some fucking respect. You decided to go to this school. It's your fault, not theirs that you don't like law school. Suck it up and fade into obscurity like you say you want to. By trying to go out "with a bang" at the expense of others, you just look like a giant douche bag. All points gained by the first video (that weren't lost by the second one) are now gone. I'm glad you aren't here anymore.
Another anonymous opinion:
I couldn't get on board with the "woe is me, law school is inefficient" stuff, but I thought it was very well written. I'd read other stuff written by the author.
Also, I don't think my law school education is sooo important or sooo sacred that it was somehow cheapened by what this one person did.
I don't think its as great as Toney seems to believe and its not as offensive as others think.
Armen - "upholding the profession" is for those in the profession. Law school does not require the professional conduct that the field of law does. In fact, many people that go to law school don't even go on to become attorneys.
Having said that, what about songs about shagging in the stacks? Or about the shenanigans that go on at law review? Or keggers in the courtyard? Do these diminish the profession? Obviously not.
I don't think this was a cry for help - I don't even see where that comes from. I do agree that it's a selfish attempt at attention getting. But I cannot see how this harms the integrity of the exam process, or the school, or the students, or the alums. In fact, I think it affects all of these things exactly zero.
Of course, that's just my $.02. It was his exam, he paid the tuition, so he should be able to write anything he wants on it. If people don't see the humor in it (it's there, whether or not you think it's funny), then I think these were exactly the people he was targeting. Hell, this might even be the reaction he was hoping for.
Toney, I like you a lot but I'm sorry, you are mistaken about this one. You are giving this dude waaaay too much credit. This was pathetic, not funny.
Toney, I think you did the right thing by not letting everyone just torch him up.
Of course it wasn't the nicest thing to say to Prof. Zim*ing. The simple fact is this guy snapped, and went out in a blaze of glory that should probably be told in the future. For entertainment value.
But why such anger on the board? I don't get it. Are you all so happy to see someone fail? I think it is more like watching a horrific accident. I for one can't turn away.
His money was as good as anyone else's, so it's all cool by me. Unless he was on scholarship. That would have sucked. I needed one real bad and didn't get one.
11:22 - I'm flattered to know I have an admirer, but I still think I'm right (that it's funny).
One aspect of this I didn't consider is that his enrollment spot was taken by someone that would have loved to go to Boalt. But if he genuinely didn't know that law school wasn't for him before he started, I don't even mind that too much (a transfer will get his spot).
Yeah, that's just what we need, another transfer coming up in here and screwing up the curve. Ha!
I guess it won't affect me though, I'll be chained to my desk with golden handcuffs by then.
Anyway, I thought the crim final story was hilarious, and well written. And this definitely should become a piece of Boalt folklore.
Toney, I am with you 100%. Clearly this guy is making law school sound so awful to make himself feel better about dropping out, but if you are one of the people that he's criticizing -- which I am -- with wires coming out of you, poised over your keyboard -- you should recognize it as that, and think it's funny and relatively well-written. The fact that so many people are getting so upset makes me disappointed in Boalt -- maybe it really is as full of automatons as this guy thinks.
He's dropping out. What the hell do you care how he did it? Honestly, his professors will probably enjoy reading these "exams" after 100 issue spotters that all say the same thing. And if they don't, well, too bad. In my opinion, the statement that this makes a mockery of the profession itself makes a mockery of the profession. If we future lawyers can't handle a little criticism and a little pointing out of how uptight we all are -- especially by someone who has no effect on anything -- we are in sorry shape.
this should be posted in the "only in berkeley" section. i'm from the east coast and find the acts of some of the population in berkeley (and surrounding areas) very confusing and non-sensical. this former student is an example of what risks are taken when raising a child here.
or, it's an example of what could happen when you move here before you are self-aware.
I like the comment above mine so much I want to bathe with it.
@ 2nd 4:52
that was fast!
a registered blogger, publicly known amongst boalt students who is hesitant to agreee with me under his/her blogger name?
you are from the east coast, and therefore think that anyone not from the east coast is uncultured swine.
which is fine, because everyone on the west coast assumes anyone from the east coast is a prick. happy holidays! :)
I disagree with McWho.
I am also from the East Coast and find that people in the Bay Area think they are miles ahead of everyone else in terms of anything important.
See South Park "smug" episode for evidence. You know it's true.
Listen, you guys can argue all you want, but the fact remains that the cultural center of the country, if not the universe and all of existence is the beautiful state of Idaho.
Doesn't McWho kind of prove the point with his comment? That Californians think they're superior, in one form or another, than everyone else?
As someone from the east coast who's lived on both coasts, I can safely say that California is superior to every other state in the Union by a long shot.
5:43 obviously rolled into town with his self-awareness still bottled up.
they got you. it's sounds like it's too late for you.
As an east coaster, I say ha!
I have never seen so many people driving below the speed limit in my life...just one of the many flaws in CA.
9:01, I strongly beg to differ. I can almost guarantee you've only driven around Nor Cal. Nor Cal drivers tend to drive closer to the speed limit and they tend to be more passive aggressive. For example, Nor Cal drivers, if in a rush, will tailgate you. But they don't have ummmm well they don't have what it takes to make a pass maneuver. And if you tap your breaks a little bit, they cower and hide like squirrels. Passive aggressive. On the other hand, I will compliment Nor Cal drivers for knowing how to drive in the rain. We So Cal people suck when it comes to that.
But in all seriousness, there's no way any other part of the country drives faster than us. The Midwest? The South? The cops in these places have nothing to do, so they set up speed traps all over. Someone forgot to tell me that when I was in St. Louis.
On the other hand, I will compliment Nor Cal drivers for knowing how to drive in the rain. We So Cal people suck when it comes to that.
Haaaa.
But in all seriousness, there's no way any other part of the country drives faster than us.
Eastern Montana.
What's that funny white foamy looking thing on the road? And the original draft of my comment had a reference to Montana's no speed limit law. But I figured they're just hauling ass in a John Deere at 15 M.P.H.
10:15 pm, whoever you are, I'm in love with you. That episode of South Park speaks to my heart.
why does everyone from norcal feel they can degrade everyone else? why does everyone from norcal think they live in such a diverse place when, in reality, they're all the same brainwashed, treehugging, radical hipsters?
WHY ARE THERE SO MANY FREAKING PRIUSES?!?!
...driven by terrible drivers?
I'm a little late to this party, so I'm just going to ignore all the driving comments. (For the record: Californians do not know how to park.)
To get on point:
1. This is the vainest and most self-serving thing I've seen.
2. The writing quality is pretty poor, and the attempts at humor failed.
3. I don't see the basis for 1232's contempt of either professor.
4. The pedagogical critique is simply wrongheaded. The purpose of law school is to teach legal doctrine to entering members of the profession. Civil Procedure I is about, well, federal civil procedure--not what you think some imaginary judicial system should look like. It's as if a math major is bristling at being forced to learn calculus.
5. What's so damn wrong with the Socratic Method, anyway? Boalt is hardly The Paper Chase. You answer a few questions about (a) the facts; (b) the rules; and (c) the application of the rules to the facts. The casebook even edits out the irrelevant bits. Is that such a big deal? Does it really make a difference whether you raised your hand or are cold-called?
6. It's as if 1232 went to law school with the sole purpose of describing himself as a law school refugee. I think the "I didn't survive one semester" line was actually written last August.
7. I always thought of Notorious B.O.A.L.T. as the poor man's Josh Keesan. Now I realize that's insulting--to Josh.
8. This is the vainest and most self-serving thing I've seen.
9. The writing quality is pretty poor.
10. Toney, why must you continually make me question your judgment?
11. This is the vainest and most self-serving thing I've seen.
12. This is the vainest and most self-serving thing I've seen.
Carbolic -
I feel like we could have been something. Something real. But now you're dead to me.
Carbolic, the only thing more vain and self-serving is the elitist tone of your post.
Why are we still talking about this?
Dear Pot,
I wrote that 1232 was rude, self-serving, and wrong-headed. Exactly which part of that comment was elitist?
(Other than my tweak at Toney, of course. Don't give up on me, Toney! I'm just agreeing with Armen.)
Sincerely, Kettle.
Let me make a point: I'm sure that, while I don't know who carbolic is in real life, that exchanges here have little to do with how we feel about each other in reality. TJ and I have had colorful talks on here, and are friends. That said:
Carbolic, to clarify:
1. You really need to critique the writing style? He wrote it during the freaking in class final. Why don't you post your torts final before saying that his writing sucks? It is like pointing out grammatical errors on a blog (read: stupid).
2. Why defend the socratic method by saying it isn't hard? Have you BEEN on call in a class with bamberg*r or any other prof that absoutely grills you? I think it is perfectly fine to complain about it.
3. A poor man's K*esan? One makes hiphop videos and the other makes acoustic songs. The fact that we ha(d) even one of these is just something great about Boalt.
4. You criticize him for wanting more than rules of civil procedure. Well, frankly, I'm not paying 35k so that some old person can recite rules to me. I want insight. Go read your Fed. R. Civ. P. if you don't care about that.
Sincerely, Pot.
Ooh, a catfight! (Don't worry; despite my veil of blogger anonymity, I get along fine with all of the posters here IRL.)
1. I originally gave some slack on the writing. But I think he came into the classroom knowing what he was going to write, particularly the bons mots. And he brags about his upcoming book. So I think it's a fair criticism.
2. A professor forcing law students to think? Mars forbid! (See how I've cultivated my eccentricity?) Okay, I'll concede that the S.M. can be challenging. But that's because the cases are complex. In other words, it's not the pedagogy, it's the material. I'm not really sure of any other teaching method that engages so deeply in the case law.
3. First, every law school has musical students that post youtube videos. (See here and here and here and here and here and here.) Second, it's a lot easier to write hip-hop than acoustic songs. And Josh's lyrics are better, too. Just to be clear: I'm not saying that Notorious B.O.A.L.T. was bad. I'm just saying that he wasn't very good. (Like Josh.)(Also, did anyone else notice that he does the same dance moves in every video?)
4. I dare you to name one professor who teaches by reciting rules. Why are we condemning a practice that doesn't happen? My point is that you can only discuss or criticize "the law" if you understand it--which is what you learn to do in law school. (The understanding, more so than the criticizing.)
I really don't care about what this guy wrote on his tests--it's no skin off my ass one way or the other. But if you don't think the "Still Civ Pro" rap was amazing....well, I just don't know what to say. There is no way in hell that those lyrics were easy to write.
I seem to be a little late to this discussion, but I would like to side with Toney. Who cares what this guy writes on his own exams? How is that disrespectful to his classmates?
I think the people who have gotten all pissy about this just don't respond well to being the butt of someone's joke.
And it was a pretty damn funny joke.
(Merry Christmas!)
Dan said:
"How is that disrespectful to his classmates?"
. . . then he said:
"I think the people who have gotten all pissy about this just don't respond well to being the butt of someone's joke."
Dan, if they are the butt of the joke, then it's disrespectful. Alternatively, if it is not disrespectful, then nobody is the butt of a joke. I can only assume you checked your critical thinking skills at the door when you departed for the break, but when you get back you Berkeley for the spring you should revisit this thread. I think you'll come to a different conclusion.
Until then, Merry Christmas to you, too. Don't let the Mormons get you.
hi. do we know for sure that this guy dropped out, rather than just taking his exams like a normal student and then writing a separate fake exam to post on the internet for attention?
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