Here's a Tip For You
Apparently the economic downturn has New Yorkers tipping less. Not only have check totals have gone down (something that’s been widely noted) but also the percentage of those lower checks that diners are leaving as tips.
In case you're the kind of person who finds that tempting, come find me so I can give you a good whack upside the head: it's not okay to tip like a miser when your portfolio takes a dump -- you should be adjusting your lifestyle, not your server's. Try ordering less.
In case you're the kind of person who finds that tempting, come find me so I can give you a good whack upside the head: it's not okay to tip like a miser when your portfolio takes a dump -- you should be adjusting your lifestyle, not your server's. Try ordering less.
posted by Patrick Bageant at 10:00 AM
61 Comments:
If people follow your advice, won't waiters still end up with less cash?
Mike they will, and that's inevitable in the current economic climate [Sorry Patric, hanging curve ball]. But at least the server won't think they did something wrong and you won't feel like a DB for indulging yourself while screwing over the person serving you.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan I committed one of my grammatical pet peeves: they instead of he/she.
Bingo. Your server may or may not come home with less money, but that's no excuse for living indulgently by shifting the fringe costs of your lifestyle to a third party who has no control over your decisions. It's something anyone with any class would avoid, like taking pennies from the bin at a cash register without ever putting any in.
. . . or making change in the offering plate.
The biggest thing that used to irk me as a waiter was that we got taxed on cash tips based on our receipts. When I was waiting, the IRS usually presumed you got about 12%-15% in tips based on all sales. So when some a-hole decided to cut your tip short, you got doubly screwed. Once on the check and then again when the IRS presumed you got a bigger tip than you really did. Not a lot of money per transaction, but by the end of the year this could add up.
Amen.
As a former bartender, I completely disagree with some of the sentiments here. There is nothing wrong with reducing the % you are tipping, so long as it remains in the range of acceptable tipping, particularly if you also reduce the amount you order. I'm not sure what standard tipping rates are; I've heard 15-18%. If you tip higher than is required by etiquette when you are doing well, it isn't unreasonable to reduce your tip to mere proper-etiquette levels later.
The article Partick cited says that the average has gone from 20% to 17%. If the 20% rate occurred during financial euphoria, and 17% were the norm in "regular times" (I don't claim to know the norm), then what's wrong with this?
There's also the argument that if economic hardship never affected the average tipping rate, then the average tipping rate would go up when times are good, and stay the same when times are bad. Should the average tipping rate be immune to being lowered?
Anyway, if you are truly seeing hard times, you probably should be staying home, which hurts servers the most. If you go out and are clearly making a sacrifice in what you order (bypassing the second glass of wine, etc.), and you are the type of person that tips very well normally (25%), then tipping just the regular amount (18% say) is far away preferable to a server than not going out at all.
Having said that, if you spring for the Porterhouse and justify it by tipping 6%, you deserve a roundhouse to the duodenum.
I disagree. If you accept that a person's finances dictate their (sorry Armen) choice to indulge, then I think you have to agree that the person enjoying the indulgence should also absorb the costs of those choices. There is no justification to shift the cost of your lifestyle to someone else, just so you can continue to enjoy it.
You completely ignored my point. The "costs" of one's indulgence, other than the prices of the food, are the tips. If you tip 17%, and 17% is an acceptable tipping rate, then you are paying these costs. The fact that you tip extra (25%, say) when you are doing well shouldn't be counted against you.
You aren't passing the costs of your lifestyle on to the server during the hard times. You are passing the benefits of your success on to the server during the good times.
No, I understand your point, I just don't agree.
The only thing that has changed in the last eight months is the diner's personal finances. The reasons for that change, be they a mugging, a divorce, or "the current economic climate," simply are not relevant to the decision to have a nice meal, or to the experience of a nice meal. That's why construing tips as "passing the benefits of your success on to the server during the good times" has a hollow ring to it. If that was really what people were doing (essentially paying above and beyond the flat rate), then in good times wouldn't they also tip in places where tipping is not customary, like the grocery store, or the law library when the reference desk helps them find something?
Of course not. Tipping is an aspect of dining, not personal wealth.
Sorry, but you're flat wrong. It isn't the tip itself that is the "benefit of one's success" being passed on, but the increase in tip from 17% to 25% (the rates I used as an example). Which is why you don't tip the grocer during good times (mathematically, increasing a tip of $0 by 25% is still $0).
So long as you tip an acceptable rate during hard times, there is nothing wrong with tipping a better rate during good times.
Oh good, the glass is half full after all.
Someone should pass that on to ATL -- I'm sure all the associates who worked their asses off this year expecting their usual bonuses will be relieved to know that the "Half-Skadden" rate is acceptable. :)
I agree with Toney. So somebody doesn't want to go above and beyond right now and tip 25% like they use to. They want to tip 17% instead. What is wrong with that?
If I was a waiter I would prefer somebody come in and tip 17% than not come in and tip at all. 17% is still above an acceptable tip.
Not to pile on Patrick, but if everyone took Patrick's approach here we'd be hurting the very people he seeks to protect.
17% is an acceptable tipping rate. The problem with your argument, Patrick, is that people may actually cut back on what they order or not eat out as much. This in turn hits the restaurant business directly and will result in waiters getting laid off (what's better: 17% or no job at all?).
If someone's justifying reducing their tip to 17% to eat a $50 meal, more power to them. And the economy is better for it.
[Aside: It's obvious that such an approach is irrational, but I'm just saying it's an approach I'm sure people (not I) take nonetheless.]
To pile on Patrick, WTF? Ask any currently employed associate if they're unhappy with half-skadden bonuses. I dare you. I double dare you.
Maybe, and this is a huge maybe, you could have argued that 20% IS customary in NY (I think that's right, I'm not sure), and a dip to 17% is below customary. But now you're just ranting about something that's indefensible.
My afternoon is somewhat busy, but I'll be available to dispense those whacks to the head any time after 4:00 p.m.
I don't know how others decide to tip, but personally 15% to 20% is my baseline, depending on the restaurant (fanciness of the food, decorum, etc.). I don't consider that baseline dictated by any custom, but dictated because I understand these service industry workers are probably being taxed whether or not I tip them (see above post).
My deviation from that baseline (up or down) is a function of service, WHICH IS WHAT A TIP IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT ANYWAY!!!
Good service = better tip.
Terrible service = me screwing you over (although I rarely do this, I know how stressful working in a restaurant can be).
So I guess you could say my tipping method is a modified-Mr. Pink theory. I don't feel anyone is "entitled" to a tip over what is already assumed to be a part of their salary. After that, if you make my dining experience enjoyable I'll consider digging out some more cash.
Am I the only one on this? Do other people just tip the customary amount without reference to service?!?
I guess I'm a little lost when reading Armen's response.
Armen: who is that comment directed to? Is it indefensible to say it's better for people to be eating at restaurants than requiring them to stay at home because they're unwilling to pay greater than the society-determined standard of 17%?
At Pat, not you.
Oh, come on, Teej. Do you really think the choice here is between 17% and no dining at all? Do you have any evidence to support the bald assertion that a 20% tip will cause restaurants to empty? Because if you do, I can match it toe-for-toe with evidence suggesting that many people are basically unethical and will be misers when they think no one is looking. My sense is that it is the miserly mindset that controls these decisions, not some sort of rational good-for-the-whole economic analysis.
ok - that's what I thought. just got a little confused when you appeared to be taking a quote from me (and then making a statement that appeared to be in line with mine).
This entire thread fails to address the two biggest problems with tipping:
1. People who, upon receiving a bill for $72.34, take out a calculator to determine that a proper 15-percent tip would be $10.85 and then write that number in the tip line of the receipt. (And you're even worse if you have an app on your iPhone that does this for you.)
2. People who, upon receiving a bill for $72.34, tip $12.66 on a credit card to give themselves the nice, round total of $85.00. Because, you know, your waiter loves carrying that 66 cents around and everything. And you need nice round numbers for when you have to add up your own credit card bill at the end of the month. Oh, wait, that's right - you don't.
(Of course, problem number two is mitigated to the extent that some restaurants simply add those tips into the employees check, and the employees aren't carrying around actual cash. But still. Seriously?)
How is either phenomenon a "problem"? Other than in example (1) using 15% other than the number you think is appropriate?
P: I merely took issue with your suggestion to "try ordering less."
That rationale directly hits the viability of the restaurant itself - and taken to an extreme may be seen as encouraging people to avoid restaurants altogether. It is quite obvious that people are cutting back on how often they go out to eat and equally obvious that this will result in harming the restaurant's balance sheet.
My point is merely that if people are cutting a tip down from a super-inflated price in order to justify spending more money than would otherwise go to the restaurant itself then it's not necessarily a bad thing - the waiter may lose his job if people follow your advice and the restaurant faces a further cut to its profits (all so the tipper can maintain a super-inflated tip level).
Only law students and lawyers could turn a basic issue of etiquette into a conjectural discussion of economics. Half of you are dicks. You know who you are.
Perhaps I should have proposed a solution for efficient tipping:
1. Take total.
2. Move decimal point one place to the left.
3. Multiply by two.
4. Round down to nearest whole dollar.
(e.g., $72.34 becomes $14.00, or 19.3 percent; $148.61 becomes $29.00, or 19.5 percent. And you hardly had to do any thinking.)
Guilty as charged, 1:08(2).
Matt: that's pretty much what most people I know do (but well explained on your part).
TJ: That's because you only surround yourself with smart, thoughtful people. I know I cringe whenever I see anyone take out a calculator, tip card, or worse, an iphone to figure it out.
(The iphone is doubly bad because not only is it poor tipping practice but it is also overuse and abuse of the iphone.)
Matt, not to piss on your birthday cake or anything, but there is NO problem with someone writing $12.66 on their receipt, since at the end of the night, all of these tips are added together, with all the sub-dollar amounts combining into super-dollar amounts, and the maximum amount of change you would take home would be less than a dollar.
If you were a server like me, you wouldn't even take the change home, but rather leave it in your change bag, since restaurants are always short of change (because people always pay with credit card), and it's convenient to have change around.
Stop pulling the sever card. Many of us have served in restaurants, including high end restaurants.
Again, the server card was directly related to the point I made in response to Matt, and not some sort of "I'm the expert here" statement.
And my bar definitely wasn't "high-end". I'm from Idaho.
Even so, Toney - and I acknowledge that exact point or something similar in my original post - there is still no rational basis for coming up with round dollar amounts for your credit card company. My point is that people are creating all this extra math-work for themselves, and there's really no reason to do it. At all. I challenge you to come up with one. Something better than an irrational affection for round numbers.
A irrational love for round numbers (there's a great mathematical irony with this statement, btw) is a perfectly valid reason to tip to an even number. People do it all the time.
Why else would people "top off" their gas to round numbers? Or pick round numbers for their favorite number period? Why do people say "I'm 26" instead of "26.38". Round numbers are simplistic and comforting. And if you think subtracting the bill's sub-dollar amount from a dollar is unreasonable "extra-math work", then you clearly aren't a golfer.
Why else would people "top off" their gas to round numbers?
Gah! That's almost as maddening as the tip-thing. Unless you're paying cash. Which is where that practice probably came from. And the other. But that doesn't justify continuing it.
(And yes, I got the mathematical irony. Just because I studied English doesn't mean I don't get math. Plus, my favorite number is i.)
Tipping is optional anyways. If it wasn't, it would be included in the check.
If you don't want to hurt their feelings, just write this on the receipt: "Sorry for the low tip, it's because of current economic crisis."
The joke is on you Matt. i is imaginary, not irrational.
I know that, too. Point is, i is not "round."
It is if "round" means "whole-numbered coefficient", which is what "round" means. Jerk.
Can we establish the proper tip % for a bar tab?
Just because the beer costs $6 doesn't make the simple act of opening it for me any more valuable.
Thoughts?
Technically, while i is not an "irrational" number, it is still "not rational." Rationals are defined as all numbers which can be expressed as a quotient of two integers. You can't do this with i, so technically it's not rational. However, the irrationals are defined as all the real numbers that aren't rational (wonderfully simple definition). But that excludes i, which isn't real.
Don't you love how math and English don't meld.
2:31, one buck a drink. Yeah, it might work out to more than 20 percent. But it's just about decency, really.
2:31, I know this breaks with my above laid out restaurant tipping method, but my simple rule is a dollar a drink. But that amount can grow . . . as my inebriation increases. I'm a generous drunk.
If someone hands you a drink over the bar, you leave them a buck plus any loose change they gave you (unless you pick it up from the bar -- then the rule is to not give it back.)
If the drink cost more than $9 or $10, you leave them a bit more.
Caley - if the "integers" you are using to determine whether a number is rational or not are Gaussian integers, then it is rational. Most mathematicians are referring to Gaussian integers when they say "integers" these days, as we the world we live in is defined by the complex number system.
The integers as you are referring to them (..., -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, ...) are Gaussian integers whose imaginary components have a coefficient of zero. (Z is contained in Z[i])
Fine. Take away my fun.
I tip two bucks to start the night and find I usually get served faster. I don't usually come to the defense of under tipped bartenders. In fact I love when my shortsighted neighboring patron stiffs the bartender- it's that much quicker service for me the rest of the night.
caley,
Most servers under-report tips, not over report them. Typically 8% of sales (or so) are added in as allocated tips (box 8 on your w2). Most people tip well in excess of 8% and almost every server I know has never correctly claimed all their tips as incomes (Which they should, if my income gets taxed so should yours). So its not really fair to complain about the tax consequences of a low tip unless you are actually paying taxes on the high tips.
Also, servers can completely avoid the tax risks of a low tip by keeping a daily log of their tips and reporting that at the end of the year (instead of the Box 8 info). But most people don't do this because Box 8's amount is typically much lower than what they actually earned.
Patrick,
I think 15 -17% is a reasonable tip. When times are good I tip more than that because I would like to share my good fortune, and I would also like to pay for better service. But when times are tough I see nothing wrong with scaling back. As long as I still tip a reasonable and normal amount I am not shafting anyone. If the server feels like his or her tips are getting too low at 15% he or she is welcome to find another job.
Even though I tip a reasonable amount, I still don't really understand why restaurant servers are entitled to tips when other just as worthy workers are not. However, since I don't want any foreign substances to be added to my food I tip what is customary. However, I base my tip on the total before tax. It doesn't make much of a difference, but I don't feel like tipping based on what I am being taxed on by the state. Just call me Mr. Pink light.
I confess to not reading all the comments (and being amused that there are over 50 about tipping!), but an interesting point about tips. Do you guys think it's best to round the tip to the nearest dollar (i.e. tipping $5 when 20% is $5.37) or round the total to the nearest dollar (i.e. tipping $5.47 because it makes the total bill an even $27). (Ignore my math.)
My brother was a waiter and he said anytime anyone wrote in an uneven tip, he had to go to the till at the end of the night and actually take out exactly 47 cents, or whatever. So he said to ignore the total and round the tip.
But I suppose in restaurants where the tips are pooled at the end of the night, it'd be best to round the total.
Anyway, thoughts?
Yeah Dan, I'd stick to reading all the comments.
I think the whole expected tip of 15% in the US is ridiculous. People do a mediocre job and expect a 15% tip. I would prefer a table fee of 10% and an optional tip for those that really do a good job, like they do in most European countries.
Putting aside your merely mathematical distinction between an expected 15% tip in the US and the 10% table fee in Europe, you that the minimum wage for servers in most states is roughly half that of the minimum wage for all workers, right
Good point, we should work on lowering the minimum wage of non-servers to make it fair.
Yeah, 8:38:
We can do that, but just be ready to pay more than $18.99 for that steak at Outback. They can do that because they only pay their servers $2.13/ hr in some states.
CA they get full wages (meaning they make at a minimum about $9/hr), which is why I have less sympathy.
I never tip with cash. I always just give the server some good advice for life. I know they prefer that. They can get a few dollars from anyone, but only I can provide them with wisdom.
Sometimes they follow me outside the restaurant to express their gratitude, and toss additional snacks for my journey at me ... like eggs and tomatoes for a future omelet.
Tips have become the expectation because we (country-wide) don't pay people living wages. Contrast, for example, the U.K. where you rarely tip.
That said, the tip % that's customary seems to be a function of two things: the local labor market, and the cost of living. So 20% was customary in New York (where cost of living had sky-rocketed, but where, by law, restaurants are not required to pay minimum wage if the expected total of wage + E(tips) = federal min. wage). In California, where there's greater wage protection, 15-18% is acceptable depending on the restaurant. In most states there isn't a lot of bargaining power on the restaurant-worker end to negotiate more secure wage & tax policies.
I do think Patrick's ultimate point is right on, though. It is a dick move to transfer wealth from those at the bottom to subsidize a voluntary "lifestyle" choice. If your personal custom had been to tip 25%, it is not ok to cut that amount down (particularly below the locality standard) because you're in a different economic situation. I hear the whole "not eating at restaurant X hurts workers more" argument, but I don't think individuals get to shirk custom just because their (sorry Armen) situation has changed.
Reducing your tip % from 25% to 15% is not "transferring" wealth from those at the bottom. If anything, tipping 25% was a transfer of wealth from me to the server, and cutting back to 15% is the cessation of such a transfer.
I also cut back the amount I give to charity. That's not a transfer of wealth either.
I think we should all follow the tipping system from 3rd Rock from the Sun. Place a stack of $1s on the table at the start of the meal and inform the server that this represents his/her potential tip. If the server does something that pleases you, you can add to the tip pile. If the server does something that displeases you, you take away from the tip pile....
In all seriousness, I tip 15% on average. I have left horrible tips in the past, but only for horrible service. On the other hand, I have left great tips as well, well above 40%, for great service. A tip, in my opinion, is earned by the server.
But I have not noticed myself reducing my tip overall.
"But I have not noticed myself reducing my tip overall."
That's because you're not a jerk.
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