Fall Courses 2009
[Update 04/19/09 (Patrick): One last bump here, as registration is this week.
Update 04/10/09 (Patrick): Hat tip and huge thanks to Anonymous in the comments, who shared a link to Berkeley Law's "two year plan" for course offerings.
Update 04/10/09 (Patrick): Hat tip and huge thanks to Anonymous in the comments, who shared a link to Berkeley Law's "two year plan" for course offerings.
I had a pdf posted here until this morning, when I received an angrily polite email demanding I take it down. The tone of the email (all demands, and no explanations) tempted me to leave it up, but in the end . . . meh. I don't really have the energy to be stubborn over something trivial. If you are an alum or someone with a genuine and legitimate interest in the plan, email me and I'll happily kick you an updated pdf. Current students can find a copy at the SID protected link, above.]
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The course list for fall 2009 will be posted tomorrow at this link. But given today’s lunch talk about graduation requirements, bar courses, and the like, we might as well kick this thing off. Here is a rundown from the talk:To graduate, students must take the core 1L curriculum, Professional Responsibility (as a 2L), and Con Law (at any time). They must also fulfill a 40-70 page writing requirement, supervised by a faculty member, by the end of the fall semester of their third year. Recommended bar courses include Evidence, Civ Pro II, Corporations, and Crim Pro. Note tat this fall will be the last time Civ Pro II is offered at Boalt.Some of that guidance is mandatory, and some of it is sort of over the top (e.g., exactly what are they doing to do to you if you choose not to take Professional Responsibility until your 3L year? Expulsion? Prison? Death?). I suspect that which is which should become evident as the comments develop. I’ll bump this thread a time or two as tele-BEARS Phase I approaches.
Lastly, the scuttlebutt is that John Yoo will teach one of the Civ Pro classes.
Labels: Classes/Professors, Yoo-Hoo
posted by Patrick Bageant at 11:28 PM
56 Comments:
If you don't take PR your second year you must take a ride in the time masheen.
Are incoming 1Ls holding a personal moral opposition to taking class with Yoo going to be allowed to switch mods?
It's CP II (the old elective) so no 1L's will be enrolled.
Well, crap. That's no fun. Now I wish I'd waited to take Civ Pro II!
my advice, and this is because it weighs on my conscience that i have not given more people this advice, is that, whatever you do, do NOT take "avoiding club fed" as your PR class. if something looks too good to be true, it is.
I thought Avoiding Club Fed was awesome. There's something awesome about a class starting 8 weeks late, and ending 4 weeks early. Ethics itself is somewhat silly (well, not ethics obviously, but a class that teaches ethics), so the value of an ethics course lies in the conversation that develops in the classroom. Granted ACF's discussion was frustrating to sit through, but not so much that it erases the benefit of a five-week, mid-semester course.
To each their own but I was in ACF last semester and that class was pointless and boring. Granted I probably did 5 hours of work for the whole semester but still wish I didn't take it.
To agree, Avoiding Club Fed is boring and easy. You're just listening to him ramble. If you want to satisfy the PR requirement with an easy P, go for it. If you want to prepare for the MPRE or care about the grade, avoid it. He'll tell you upfront that it's not intended to prep for the MPRE. I think he mentioned 2 model rules the whol time. And if you prefer to avoid Ps, you should know more effort won't necessarily lead to a higher grade in that class.
So how useful is CP II if you don't see yourself doing litigation? Is it still a good idea to take it as prep for the bar?
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6:23 - I have no intention doing litigation but would feel like a total dumbass of a lawyer had I not taken CPII.
Instead, I look forward to other opportunities to feel like a dumbass of a lawyer. But I'm happy now that knowing nothing about something as fundamental as jurisdiction will not be one of them.
There's a reason they're merging the classes together.
"The course schedule for Fall 2009 will be online on Friday afternoon. The registrar's office will be closed on Friday morning until 1pm in order to process the schedule."
So when can we expect to see it? I had thought it would be up by 1pm, or 1:30 at the latest.
I second the advice to take CPII. I'm one of the dumbasses who missed it... (which makes fed courts extra hard!).
As a sidenote, are any other 3Ls perturbed by some of the questions on this 3L survey? I find being asked to rank the "prestige" of different types of legal jobs an obnoxious proposition. The question seems designed to make people look shallow (how many assholes think firm work is worth more than public interest! omg!), when in fact I don't think anyone walks around ranking job options like that. Different strokes for different folks; prestige doesn't have much to do with it.
I'm with you, Laura. I took a look at the questions and thought that it seemed geared to make us respond in certain ways. Then I tried to figure out WHO is administering the survey. I may be mistaken but there's nothing like "on behalf of BHSA" or "collected for the Dean's office." It's just two random people and they don't explain their purpose, which makes me less willing to answer creepy leading questions. I deleted.
"So when can we expect to see it? I had thought it would be up by 1pm, or 1:30 at the latest."
Or, 2:50 at the latest. *grimace*
The only Con Law class being offered conflicts with both Civ Pro II classes. Is waiting till 3rd year to take Con Law a dumb idea?
Two gripes: Admin and Fed Courts are being taught at the same (crappy, early) time. I can deal with the early hour, but the conflict is ridiculous considering that Admin wasn't even taught last fall.
Second, both sections of Civ Pro II conflict (for the last time, apparently) with the only section of Con Law that satisfies the Con Law requirement.
Having one set of conflicts between these classes--some of the only post-1L classes that just about everyone agrees you must take--would be tough, but two conflicts is ridiculous. If anyone knows how one mobilizes effectively to get the schedule rearranged, please share!
Yes, I am also seriously upset about the Admin/Fed Cts conflict. Anybody have any idea if we can do something about this?
I concur. The fact that Admin and Fed'l Cts conflict is a shame.
Or the conflicts make some amount of sense because they force you to pick the classes you're interested in more. There isn't room for everyone to take fed courts and admin law in the same semester, so this type of scheduling is arranged such that a lot of people take one or the other. To have some interested people stuck taking neither while lucky people get to take both isn't a better scenario.
Laura, I agree that that may make sense. But in a system where we only know about classes from semester to semester (rather than two years out), many 3Ls may end up being hung out to dry with classes like that that are frequently offered in the fall, and not in the spring.
Honestly, I don't think waiting to take Con Law until 3L year will hurtcha.
How about the fact that they are giving out tentative final exam times for next semester? If I weren't graduating, I'd find that very nice.
Bankruptcy also conflicts with Fed Courts and Admin Law.
Jeez. Talk about trying to squeeze people into Boalt at 8:30.
I know this doesn't mean much to the 3Ls out there, but they have started offering a tentative list of courses for the coming 2 years:
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/php-programs/registrar/2yearCurriculumView.php
Kudos to Boalt for the 2 year chart. Very helpful.
Actually, Admin was offered in both Fall 2007 and Fall 2008. I would not recommend taking it at the same time as Fed Courts anyways, though.
Should there be a thread about course recommendations or questions? Or was this thread intended to fill that role? It seemed to have a more narrow scope based on the original post.
I understand where the two posters above are coming from about the rationality of having Admin and Fed Courts conflict (makes more room for everybody, taking both at once sucks). But the trouble is that last spring--and apparently next spring, according to the two-year plan--Admin wasn't taught. So that means that everyone in the class of 2010 who didn't take Admin their 2L fall--maybe expecting that it would continue being taught each semester--must choose between Admin and Fed Courts.
Relatedly, does anyone know why Fed Courts takes up so much time? It looks like it's over four hours of class a week for a three-unit class. Maybe it's an error and they could make Fed Courts Mondays and Tuesdays? (I'm thinking wishfully here.)
Agreed. This year they made the one-semester admin offering seem like a one-time thing.
And, Admin and Fed Courts both conflict with the only section of Evidence being offered. I realize it'll be offered again in the spring, but it'd be nice not to push all these heavy courses into 3L spring....
1:37
I think that Evidence has been offered every semester (at least since fall 2007, which is how far back I've checked) and so has--I think--admin law. Not sure about fed courts, but it is offered at least once a year I think.
Fed Courts blocks off all that time because WF cancels some of the class sessions when he has to be in court. So you have longer class sessions, but they don't always meet.
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Yes, Admin has (and should) be taught ever semester. But it wasn't taught in Spring 2009, and doesn't look like it's going to be taught in Spring 2010 (see the 2 year schedule). These skipped semesters has made it extremely difficult for anyone in the class of 2010 to take it...
FYI, if you want BHSA to address your course grievance(s) with the administration, let 'em know here: http://bhsablog.blogspot.com/2009/04/class-conflict.html
as a spring 3L, i can tell you that the strategy of holding off heavy courses until then is BOLLOCKS. don't do it. you will regret it. trust me.
Perhaps no AdminLaw in the Spring b/c AJO is out next year. Cross your fingers that she comes back - she's one of Boalt's best teachers and fastest rising scholars.
Speaking of which, M*rphy is also going to be out next year. She has been the only prof who could teach CrimPro2, but the administration managed to get this new person, L*ve, to teach it next spring. I'm glad they found somebody to teach this class. But if we were to lose M*rphy, it would be a huge loss.
where is AJO going? so sad!
How essential is Fed Cts? I want to take Civ Pro II and Admin Law, and seems like it would be a bad idea to take Fed Cts as well...
I was somewhat surprised to learn that what we learned in Fed Cts seems to make up a big chunk of what is considered Con Law on the bar exam. Admin Law hasn't turned up yet, but might be beneficial if you were going into an admin-based field.
AJO's going to be at Harvard & Columbia next year.
For those who have not noted the change, Ad Law has been moved in order to resolve the conflict with Fed Courts. It will now run from 10:00-11:10 am Wednesday, Thursday, and FridaySee? Boalt listens! Boalt cares!
Anyone taken Admin with Bamb*rger? How was it?
I took B*mberger for AdLaw during Spring 08. I really enjoyed his teaching. He definitely knows his stuff and injects some humor into his lectures. It's tough subject matter, so I appreciated that at the start of each lecture he would do a brief recap to connect the day's content.
This two year chart is amazing. As a 3L, I'm incredibly jealous that the 1Ls get this.
I was curious if there was a link to when registration began and what the different times were. My registration time is at 3:10 on April 23rd and was curious as to where that fell?
4:53, the answer is "it depends." (I'm sorry, and I can feel your look!)
Here is my sense of it, based entirely on isolated anecdotes: if you are a 1L, you are lucky. Most of your peers register on the 24th. If you are a 2L, then you are moderately unlucky although it could be worse. The bulk of the class of 2010 registers on the 23rd, and your time is mildly late. Don't let that get you down, though, because least some 2010-ers register on the 24th. If you're in that group, I'll see you in Zeb at 8:20 on Friday mornings.
Thanks Patrick, I appreciate it. There is a class I am really hoping to take that has fairly limited enrollment so I was hoping for a better answer.
Has anybody taken the accounting for lawyers course? I am trying to decide between that and the bankruptcy course because the times conflict.
If anyone has any recommendations I would be interested to hear. Thanks
Does anybody know anything about Conflicts of Law with K*Y or Antitrust with ED*in
Kay is supposed to be great, but allegedly assigns a lot of work.
Antitrust with Edlin was one of the 2 best classes I took at Boalt. Highly, highly recommend. Few cases, very doctrinal, with a great econ tie, but also very grasp-able.
9:06, I have heard great things about both courses and have been told by several attorneys that you really need to take both.
Accounting for lawyers because it really is essential to understand some of those concepts to be a corporate attorney.
Bankruptcy was also recommended because it is a really tough course to learn on your own and something every corporate lawyer should be familiar with.
However, that being said the times overlap which I just don't understand. 3L's are now going to have to pick and choose which one to take when they definitely should have the option to take both.
I have no idea but I was going to try to send an email to somebody to address the situation and determine if they realize that there is a conflict between these two classes. Probably won't work but maybe they will make of the classes meet Friday morning to resolve the conflict
FYI - Bankruptcy will be taught by Prof. Katherine P*rter, who we're lucky to have visit Boalt next year, and whose work is discussed in this New York Times article, "Dubious Fees Hit Borrowers in Foreclosures" http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/business/06mortgage.html
3:35, I would also send an email asking about the time conflicts. However, I have no idea who to address the email to. Where did you send yours? Or if anybody else knows where to send an email regarding this conflict I would be interested to know. Thanks.
Email Dean Whitman, who is in charge of curriculum coordination. You can find her email address on this page.
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