"I'm Gunna Pass this Damn Thing" Thread
Here's a new thread that is meant to be more focused on bar prep study - questions, advice, mnemonics, bitching about lecturers, etc.
To help start it off, try this link to a prior N&B thread on helpful mnemonics.
Good luck everyone!
[Note: I'm going to try to keep this thread at or near the top to encourage use.]
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Bump #1 (6/23): Everyone feeling FAAABBUULLOUSS?
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Bump #2 (7/5): So July 4 has come and gone - now what?
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Bump #3 (7/14): Final two week stretch.
To help start it off, try this link to a prior N&B thread on helpful mnemonics.
Good luck everyone!
[Note: I'm going to try to keep this thread at or near the top to encourage use.]
----
Bump #1 (6/23): Everyone feeling FAAABBUULLOUSS?
----
Bump #2 (7/5): So July 4 has come and gone - now what?
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Bump #3 (7/14): Final two week stretch.
Labels: Bar Exams
posted by tj at 9:10 AM
204 Comments:
Six covenants of title in Real Property sales:
"Sexual Racism Abates Quickly While Fucking"
S=Seisin
R=Right to convey
A=covenant Against encumbrances
Q=covenant for Quiet enjoyment
W=covenant of general Warranty
F= covenant for Further assurances.
i'm so unmotivated to learn the CA evidence distinctions. anyone run the probabilities of an evidence question coming up, and that you need to use the CA code? gold didn't do anything for me, just read the damn notes. nothing memorable. gripe gripe gripe
I also found CA evidence and CA civ pro to be really challenging. I don't know how the bar examiners decide what to ask--but I know they didn't ask either subject last summer. My only advice is to give it time. It might take a little time to absorb it, but you will.
Good luck to you all!
I concur on CA evidence! I spent the whole day on regular evidence and it hurts my head, and now I must learn distinctions? Torture.
They tested both Evidence (w/CA distinctions) *and* Civil Procedure on the February '09 exam. Some might say this makes them less likely to test it in July, but I have a different theory... prior to Feb '09, they had gone an unprecedented 5 or 6 administrations of the exam without testing Civ Pro at all. I think they were gearing up all that time to test the CA distinctions, and now they have several possible prompts lined up and ready to go. If I were taking the test this summer (thankfully, I passed already, so I will not be taking part in that delightful exercise anymore!) I would absolutely count on Civ Pro with CA distinctions coming up. Learn it. An Evidence repeat I think may be less likely, but it's just a gut feeling. You never know!
p.s. you can check out the questions they asked in February on the Cal Bar website at:
http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?sImagePath=Examination_Results_Statistics.gif&sCategoryPath=/Home/About%20the%20Bar/Bar%20Exam&sHeading=Examination%20Results/Statistics&sFileType=HTML&sCatHtmlPath=html/Admissions_Old-Statistics.html
Can anyone help the confused?
I thought the public records exception to hearsay, 803(8), did NOT need to be contemporaneous to the event/condition recorded???
So why does Barbri's evidence lecture say otherwise??? (p61)
by p61 I'm referring to their comprehensive outline, not the exceedingly tedious Gold lecture.
I'm pretty sure 803(8) does NOT actually have such a requirement. 803(8)(c) refers to fact finding from an investigation. What event would it need to be made at/near the same time as? The thing being investigated? The investigation's conclusion? I checked my Sklansky notes and he didn't mention this either. In fact--one of the examples in the BarBri outline is "a manual prepared by the office that processes Medicare claims explaining which claims are properly payable under Medicare...." How could that be contemporaneous to any "event"?
I bet they're just plucking the requirement from the business record exception. I've heard public records analogized to business records in other circumstances. (Didn't one of the advisory committee notes say that they realized that a lot of the public records stuff could have gotten in as a business record?) But it just doesn't make sense to apply the contemporaneous requirement to all the things that might get in under 803(8). If you wanted to be extra thorough, you could probably raise a records lack of contemporaneity as a "circumstance indicat[ing] lack of trustworthiness," which IS part of the language of 803(8). Maybe just stick that in your essay answer to cover your basis.
OK, wait, sorry. That was long-winded, but I wasn't complete. I just realized that those three requirements for admissibility on page 61 are taken directly from the public record exception in the CEC (section 1280). The California rule tracks the requirements of the CA Business Records Exception (CEC 1271) much more closely than the FRE.
I don't know why the outline presents it as though those requirements apply to the FRE. In fact, that was one of Gold's California distinctions: Rather than the restrictions in 803(8) CA just requires 1) within duty, 2) at/near time, 3) circumstances indicating trustworthiness. (Page 65 of the in-class workbook.)
Sorry to be confusing. Good luck!
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to: 6:18/6:36 Wow, thanks.
Why does the sample answer to the evidence question we're supposed to turn in talk about the CEC? Weren't we explicitly told in the lecture to only apply the CEC if explicitly told to?
I am angry at barbri for that. I checked the CA bar website. Sure enough, their sample answers do NOT refer to prop 8 in the answers. I have no idea why the barbri ones do (for the same question, of course).
I prefer to believe the bar website, so I will only apply CA law if it instructs me to do so.
In a side beef to that, has anyone else been annoyed with the crappy quality of the barbri answers in general? They suck, or at least contain enough wrong information to be unreliable.
In LA today, Sakai told us that the CEC stuff is only included in the sample essays for "instructional purposes." You are correct to only use it if told to do so. He suggested we consider practicing with it b/c a California Evidence Q did pop up a few years back. I think that's what he said at least. I was trying to find a wireless connection. I'd like to vote Essay Workshops as the least helpful part of BarBri. And so unnecessarily long!
Yep, there are so few actual Bar questions that ask for the CEC that it's a good idea to pretend every evidence essay question asks for CEC as well.
crappy quality of barbri answers? more like disbelief that i'm supposed to produce an answer of that quality. they recite the rules perfectly, and nail every single issue. comparing them to the answers off the cal bar website, the standard for acceptable is much lower, I think. barbri answers seem to be what a perfect answer would look like, for us to check and learn from, rather than what we're expected to do.
Yeah, I also don't think the BarBri answers are bad at all. If you think they're wrong, could it be b/c you just came to a different conclusion? Like today, I said something wasn't an imminent threat to support standing when the sample answer thought it was. I think the fact that an answer recognizes the issue and makes some argument to support it is what counts. I often disagree with the BarBri sample's conclusions, but they do seem to spot most of the issues, state the rules correctly, and set forth fair enough arguments to support them.
The only downside is they don't show a realistic passing answer--just a perfect one. But there are a bunch of essays in the Essay Workshop section of the CICW that are actual student answers and include their scores. Those made me feel a lot better.
Before people think I am an ass: I do NOT think my essays are better. They are not. At all.
I was just meaning the law. I don't really feel like pulling examples, just asking if anyone else noticed.
I love how one of the evidence essays - I think number 4 from the practice book - is 8 pages singled spaced. I don't think I could write that if I did nothing but madly type for an hour. Serious, wtf? The level of detail in the Barbri essays makes me angry. And sad.
I think this stuff falls within the adage that "you have to aim above the mark to hit the mark". I know that there is no way on God's green earth that I'm going to be able to write 8 pages single spaced essays, but I think the point is to keep working toward that - keeping it as the ideal. Meh, maybe I'm just getting too philosophical about the whole thing.
I have to agree with McWho: those BarBri essay answers suck! And they do sometimes contain bad law, like stating that the physician-patient privilege dies when the patient dies. WRONG in many jurisdictions - including California!
I mean, just because something is "wrong in many jurisdiction including California" does not mean that it isn't the law we'll be tested about on the bar exam. There are lots of laws that are not the law anywhere anymore that BarBri has to present as gospel because it's what the Bar still tests on. BarBri might be wrong about the doctor-patient privilege. I honestly don't know. I don't know how we could even find out what is the "majority rule" if we don't believe them. But overall, I'd say stressing out about what BarBri gets wrong is probably a waste of energy...
I agree. Much of the law I am now hearing in BarBri is not exactly as I remember it from first year/bar courses. Rather than worrying about it, I am just putting myself in BarBri's hands.
Can someone please explain #5 on page 44 of MPQ Volume 1 (Contracts)?
How can the writing possibly be construed as an offer to sell even if it is a contract, given that for the answer to work, the "acceptance" occurs 6 MONTHS AFTER THE "OFFER" IS MADE, when there are no guarantees the offer was to remain open?
This was a horrible question, imo.
Re: all the comments on Barbri sample essays. It's been alluded to, but I think it's helpful to look at the posted answers on the state bar site especially if the Barbri answers stress you out. Occasionally the answer is crazy long and it's obvious the person spent way too much time on it. For the most part though I read those answers and feel like it's something I could actually do after two and a half months of studying. Good luck all.
That was a stupidly hard question. I got it wrong too. I said A. C didn't even make me THINK that this was an open offer. Had I thought about it, I guess I would realize it's OK that it was 6 months later because the offer was never formally revoked sooner. And while Epstein said the lapse of a specified OR reasonable period of time can revoke an offer, I'm guessing the question writer thought it was obvious that 6 months isn't unreasonably long. Maybe considering it was an offer to buy any colts born in the next three years and it would take more than 6 months for coalts to be foaled? If he tried to accept 6 years later, I think it's a different result.
You know, there's lots of times when BarBri acts like some fact is obvious. Like the ConLaw performance test--the grader told me that I should've altered the time the mall's curfew started from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. because that's when crime becomes more serious. I don't think there was ANYTHING in the problem to supprot that but several of my friends got the same comment!
Everyone got the same 6 pm to 7 pm comment last year too. And "failed" because of it. The PT practices are a joke. It's just being able to concentrate and read/write for three straight hours. Probably shouldn't be a lawyer if you can't do that.
Poor NY barbri students?
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/06/open_thread_how_did_you_guys_l.php
god, anyone else feel goldman for crim was a complete waste of time? seemed like a nice and funny guy, but he was still in law professor mode - assuming we already knew the law and discussing all these plurality opinions or uncertainties. gimme some black letter man, your rules of thumb are worthless on an essay. Also, anyone know whether Gant is testable? I thought another lecturer said the cutoff for material was June 2008, and so what's the point of teaching Gant?
No one said June 2008. It would be more like March, 2009.
Also, I liked the crim guy. Black letter is in Conviser. Give me stories I can remember over reading an outline any day.
has anyone who is taking the bar in oakland received their admission ticket yet? i thought it would've come by now.
I'm taking in Oakland and haven't received it yet. I also recently got worried about that fact and checked the confirmation letter the bar sent after I signed up... it says that we won't get the ticket until 4-6 wks before the exam. So, I think it is too early to stress about it.
How much does Richard Conviser suck?
He did suck. But I think that the more grating part is that he is probably burning $100's to stay warm at night.
Ok, just to be clear. The "sample" essay answers are not barbri answers. They are student answers that have been tweaked by barbri. That is why some of the law might be askew. So they are good student answers that have been amplified. Some of them are unbelievably awful, while some of them (like the answer to the Sunrise Galleria performance test) are ridiculously good.
What angers me the MOST is that when I called barbri SF to ask a couple questions, the asswipe lawyer told me he didn't have time to answer questions that could be answered by looking in the outline and that if I'm confused I should hire a tutor. Should I complain to the higher ups or what? I don't want to be blacklisted or anything but he made me feel so stupid tears quite literally formed.
I don't want to minimize what happened or condone the lawyer on the phone, but given the time constraints you're facing, and the task ahead of you, I think the better course is to shrug it off and keep on truckin'.
As an aside, can you guys give us a sense of whether this thread should move up?
I'm (already) starting to feel panicky. It's so much information to memorize. When does it all just start to stick? There is so much work to be done just keeping up with the schedule that I don't feel like I have time to be doing all the reviewing of old material that I need to do.
Armen: bumped it anyway - figured it'd be good today or tomorrow as we're finishing up a silly 4 day weekend/break.
11:24 = my thoughts precisely.
Thanks TJ.
Just keep doing what you're doing, but start getting more disciplined. I'm willing to bet there's quite a bit of you who take a while to get through a single essay, check the internet, watch TV...etc. This is the time to go into a bit of a lockdown mode where you spend your time as efficiently as possible. Once I switched to this latter mode (4 or 5 full answer essays a day, some MCs, a PT here and there), that's when I REALLY started to learn. I also got my hands on these single-page subject outlines that were really helpful in reminding me of everything and keeping things organized. I think the guy who made them charges for them, but I think you can figure out how to get your hands on them.
Armen, I hope this is the part where you say, "just kidding." You're saying now I'm supposed to triple the paced schedule that I've never been able to keep up with?
thanks a lot, armen...any chance you can post a link to the 1-pg outlines?
nevermind...
http://www.barexamoutlines.org/ny/overview.htm
this is the time = once bar/bri instruction wanes. And the pace I described was much closer to the bar. I guess about a month out, I began outlining the essays that I had never done as part of their "schedule." So don't panic.
As for the outlines, talk to TJ, McWho, or me.
Armen - Are those linked outlines the same ones you were referring to?
The one's I had in mind are for Cal, not NY. Seems like the same concept though. See my comment above re access.
Thanks, Armen!
Anyone know where one can find more practice essays outside of the BarBri essay workbook?
the cal bar website
i am fearful to leave this comment, but am sincerely confused. why do ppl mention it being difficult to follow the paced program? i have found i can complete the assignments every day w/o an issue, esp on days we finish class around noon. is everyone else having trouble b/c they are studying like crazy and can't find time for the assignments? paranoid moment, but i just really don't get it. :oP thanks!
Keep your eyes out for Oakland laptop admission tickets - came today for me.
I can pretty much complete the listed assignments (as in read the mini review for the next topic and do the essay outlines or sets of MBE practice questions that are assigned). Harder for me are full-blow essay simulations (which I tend to just outline) and the section that just says "Review X Topic" which I fear means "You should be memorizing this stuff right now."
I think my plan is to spend the rest of June focusing on trying to understand the material that BarBri says to cover and then when they finish presenting new stuff around the 4th of July, then I'll shift to memorizing.
LA test site, just got my admission ticket.
If you moved, by the way, it's a real pain to change your address with the bar. I had to send them a photocopy of my passport in addition to some special form.
I also got my Admission Ticket today -- San Mateo.
As for the paced program, I am not finding it that difficult either. It takes a while, admittedly, but if I am dilligent, I find I can complete a day's assignments.
Having said that, there are lots of days when, for one reason or another, I simply don't get through all the practice essays, but for the most part, I am on schedule.
Here's what I got on my barbri evidence essay:
I FAIL
R FAIL
A FAIL
C FAIL
I thought what I had turned in was good enough to pass. Now I'm really worried.
i'm with you 7:31! the paced program is maybe 4 hours a day - say two hours to review the prior material, an hour of MBE, and an hour of essays. and 10:24, i'm with you too. barbri graders can kiss my A**, failing me. pah! seriously, about half the comments showed they plainly had not read it. telling me to use headings - i DID! While the model answers crush your confidence, the performance test dude pumped me way up. don't know the law? MAKE IT UP!
You know, I passed evidence, which I thought I bombed. And I failed crim pro when I actually DID get all the issues in the sample answer! I really think they're just slapping letters on these things.
A quick story from my Bar summer that I like to tell. Everyone talks about how, with the graded essays, you fail the first couple, but then gradually start passing, as much because Barbri eases up on the grading as anything you've learned to do better. So I didn't freak out after I falied the first couple, even as my friends were starting to get passing grades.
Well, I believe we turned in 5 assignments during the summer, and not only did I get an overall fail on all 5 essays, but I got exactly one pass on the sub-grades. So overall I was 1 for 25.
This was scary, except for 2 things. First, I was pretty confident I knew how to write, and I couldn't possibly be that bad. Second, it was clear my graders weren't really reading the essays. Example: I got a comment one time that I neglected to address an issue (let's say unjust enrichment). Directly below the comment I had a heading, in all caps and bold, saying "Issue 2: Unjust Enrichment." So really, the timed essays are great practice, but the grading is ridiculous.
While I'm at it, one more piece of advice. This doesn't work for everyone, but I found this useful. I made 4-6 page outlines of every subject, generally just basd on the Barbri lecture with some supplementation from the books. I learned every thing on those outlines perfectly--but pretty much ignored anything outside those outlines, on the theory that if it wasn't important enough for my 5 page outline, it wasn't important enough for me to know. In the last 10 days, I looked only at my outlines, and went to the books only if I was confused about something or thought I missed a topic. These outlines were a lot easier to make than flashcards, and also were much more manageable to review. Just remember that, although people love to get caught up in esoteric issues and fact patterns, ultimately you will pass because you have the fundamentals down cold.
Thanks, Max. Very helpful advice.
One of my friends told me this early in the studying process, and it helped me to stay focused: Law school is narrow and deep; the bar exam is broad and shallow. And it was indeed broad and shallow. Max is right - it's all about knowing a broad set of fundamentals.
9:48, that's what she said.
That is totally my line.
Can anyone explain what I'm missing in the civ pro questions? I never know if the practice essays are asking for claim or issue preclusion to be applied.
Claim preclusion: a particular claim has been brought, and can't be brought again.
Issue preclusion: A ct has already decided a particular issue. Only happens if something has actually been litigated. Example: if the fed ct had tried the age discrimination case and found that D actually fired P because of his age, in a state court claim under the state statute, P would not have to prove D's reason for firing him.
Keep them separate: claim preclusion means full claim has already been judged on merits. Issue preclusion means only an element or elements of the claim has been proven or disproven in a different proceeding for a different claim.
You should probably just note that claim preclusion is the one that's really easy to spot because it will always involve the same two parties who have already fought the same case. It would hit you over the head because OBVIOUSLY no court is going to let some guy re-sue you for the same thing over and over.
Issue preclusion is tricker because it may or may not involve the same two parties. If it's the same parties, it has to be a different claim than it was last time or you would've already been hit over the head with claim preclusion.
Would examples help?
Claim preclusion: If I sue you for copyright infringement in federal court, I can't turn around and sue you for the copyright infringement of the same book again in state court. Same parties. Loser already had his day in court or his "bite at the apple" as Swift liked to say.
Issue preclusion: Say I sue you for patent infringement for building an ice cream machine with my patented cog. You're going to claim as a defense that my patent is invalid. But that's only ONE issue the court will decide in that case. If the court says my patent IS valid, I can stop you from ever re-litigating the validity again (like if you later infringe the same patent in your frozen yogurt machine and I have to bring another suit). The court's not going to keep letting you play the same song over and over. They already decided the issue of my patent's validity.
It gets trickier when OTHER people get involved (some new unaffiliated patent infringer is going to get his own chance to prove my cog patent is invalid). That's when you get into the whole mutual/non-mutual, defense/ offensive ballyhoo. But you just asked how to tell them apart, so I won't go there.
FYI--there differences btwn preclusion between federal and state court too.
Thanks!!
re: Corps lecture: So, that's what it's like to be taught by Jerry Lewis.
I liked how the Corps guy really filtered the material down to a manageable amount, but he was really hard to understand.
I didn't quite understand the priority of distribution for dividends. Will there ever be multiple types of preferred stock - ie, might a business have both preferred that are participating and preferred that are cumulative? And if so, what is the priority of distribution for the three types of preferred? Thanks.
6:10- Yes, in the real world, classes of stock and distribution cascades can get complex, but not on the bar exam. Learn the basic rules and don't try to make it more complex than you need to. They want to see if you know the legal rule, not test your ability to decipher a distribution cascade.
my god, i wanted to kill the corps guy. I'll concede it can be helpful to repeat key points and buzzwords, but he was saying everything three times. "The first point is, first of all, what we cover first, is..." Frickin' spazz.
i loved the corps guy. i really appreciated that he presented the material to us in a way that would actually help with the essays. believe it or not, you will have his annoying voice in your head when you write. at first i didn't think i would be able to handle his voice, but then i just used it for humour purposes throughout the lectures...
Actually, based on the practice essays for corporations corp's guy's lecture was too dumbed down. Perhaps he assumed some people took corporations/securities?
Can't say I found his 'distinctive' presentation style helpful. Is it just me or were the worst three lecturers all from Loyola??
I thought the Torts guy was by far the worst so far. Followed by the Evidence guy. I really liked Property, Contracts, and Remedies.
The Wills in-class workbook outline is 80 pages. WTF? The mini-review is 33 pages. How is it helpful to have an 80 page overview in the workbook?
The Wills and Trust section of the workbook is long. I have been plugging away at my outline for two days, and am still only 51 pages in. Wondering if this is the best use of my time, but am determined to get this thing done.
I may take flak for this, but I don't really see why making a 50+ page outline would help. They give you one via in class workbook. Now making a short (less than 10 page) outline seems like it would be really useful.
What do passers from prior years think? I haven't attempted an outline, but I have done (a small amount) of flashcards.
What is this 50-page outline business? Is that for all 14 subjects? Did I miss this suggestion somewhere?
You know, I typed along with all the class lectures and (leaving out the hypos) they were about 12-15 pages each. (I mean Con Law is 22 and Agency/Partnership is 6, but on average.) I think that they could be cut down to ~5 pages each, which might be manageable to learn. But I'm more worried about how to memorize the checklists for the essays for all fourteen subjects. Has anybody found a good resource for these or do we think it is it best to just start memorizing Sakai's little outlines from the essay workshops?
10:22 here. Sorry, that was poorly written.
When I wrote the post, I was on page 50 of the Workbook, not page 50 of my outline. All my outlines have been in the 15 page range.
In either case, it is now done, but it was a pain. Now onto Trusts, which I am looking forward to finishing so that I can go enjoy my weekend.
"Weekend?" What's that?
To Boalt graduates who did not pass the bar (and therefore received feedback regarding the exam), I think it would be valuable to know what exactly went wrong (as opposed to mere speculation from those who passed about what went right). Insights appreciated!
Re: 9:52. For example, did stress or time constraints cause you to leave questions unanswered? Or did you state incorrect law? Etc.
corps guy was from loyola chicago, not loyola LA.
this is maybe weird, but i am at a point now that i am just pissed at the ca bar for wanting me to know all this info plus ca distinctions!! there is no way i can learn it all. i mean, i suppose that is the point b/c we are supposed to issue spot and not know all details by heart...but, we are certaintly expected to know a lot even taking issue spotting into consideration. anyone else feel that? or am i just "at a wall," so to speak? maybe both...! hope everyone is doing well!
I think this whole think is pretty annoying. Think about how many hours we're all collectively wasting memorizing stuff we're going to forget at 5pm on the 30th.
But nothing we can do about it. Just one more hoop to jump through.
Well, at least we will all know that we shouldn't have sex with our clients.
. . . unless the intimate relationship began before the attorney client relationship commenced (ABA) or unless the intimate relationship interferes with the attorney's judgment and performance of lawyerly duties (California).
... or she's really hot (McLovinLand).
Will someone explain to me how police reports get admitted as evidence? The mini-review says try business records, and if that doesn't work, they'll likely get in under the public records exception. But except for the first part of the public records exception - records setting forth the activities of the office - this exception doesn't work for police observations/investigations in criminal cases. Would police reports get in as records of the activities of the office even though such reports probably result from an investigation?
Thanks for any help.
Well under 803(8)(B) and (C) you can pretty much bring them in unless you're the prosecutor in a criminal case. But you have to keep in mind that almost all police reports contain double if not triple hearsay. More than likely, you want that report because of the witness statements. So you have to think about the exemptions/exceptions you can use to introduce the witness statements. Once you get past that, then even if you're the prosecutor, you can just have the cop read the contents of the report without introducing the report into evidence to "refresh" his recollection.
not to freak anyone out with more work, but there are a bunch more mbe questions in the MPQ2 book that aren't assigned if you follow the paced program.
Don't worry, they say (I think I saw in the front of the MPQ book when I was trying to figure out where the 1/2 day practice test was) not to expect to complete all of the MBE questions they provide. And especially not to do them to the exclusion of the practice essays and PTs.
Does anyone have any good advice for the PTs? I know we're not supposed to stress out about them too much, but I just did Zwier and I got really bogged down in all the legal "technicalities" from the library. I didn't focus as much on the "common sense" part of the answers as I should have! Also, those sample affidavits seemed crazy lengthy.
Initially Honigberg's (sp?) lecture was a great morale booster, but the pessimist in me is starting to take over. According to Prof. H, it would seem that even the comatose can pass the CA bar. While at first quite liberating, now his words seem to have the contrary effect... What I mean is, how bad would I have to be to actually fail the damn thing? I'm starting to get nervous that I'm going to do worse than the woman who overdosed on sleeping pills the night before!!!
Is anyone else feeling this way?
I feel you 10:32, but just trust yourself and keep at it! I'm still unclear on exactly what a passing exam looks like, so all I can do is plug away at it, and not freak myself out. We should be in good hands! the end is in sight, and that's a good thing!
5:42 - You're a perfectionist. This will serve you well in the future, but maybe not on the bar. I had the same troubles with the performance tests. Here's my advice: Take practice tests, and no matter where you are after 90 minutes, just start writing. After 2-3 practice tests, you'll have it down, and will be able to let your perfectionism go.
re: 10:55. I have no idea what a passing test looks like either. It doesn't help that Barbri fails almost everybody, and gives only passing grades to really spectacular exams.
Do alums have any comments re with how much specificity we need to know all the details of calculating remedies? (i.e., Conviser's lecture)
So I've been wondering, how much about this is knowing the law cold, and how much of this is being able to right reasonable things on the exam - not panicking, making up and applying rules, etc.? Does anyone have a sense? Thanks -
...uhhh, write reasonable things.
Anyone familiar with the actual testing conditions at San Mateo? Do we sit at individual desks, on those metal folding chairs? Are there long lines for the bathrooms? Was it hot/cold, etc?
I know this time may be different, but I just want to know what I might expect.
Dress in layers (and comfortably!) for the bar, no matter where you go. Also, if you're worried about getting hungry wear a sweatshirt with a pocket and bring almonds or coughdrops or candy. Just don't take it out when a proctor walks by.
5:42am (jeez that's early) - I think the concepts sort of go hand in hand. The more comfortable you feel with the law, the more calm you'll be, and the more reasonable you'll feel your answers are. So much of what BarBri teaches you is formula. As annoying as it is, what's good about that is that it calms you down - you already know what the formula is. You already know the opening sentence, even if you have no idea what the question is asking for (i.e., "California is a Community Property ("CP") State. "CP" means blah blah blah."). It probably seems impossible now, but when the classes end and you have more time to focus on memorizing, you'll be amazed at how much you will actually be capable of remembering. Everyone is different, of course, but to me that had a great calming effect. Nothing was going to keep me from totally freaking out in the couple of days before the exam, because that's just my personality -- but once I actually got in there and the test started, I settled down, let my mind clear, and just wrote how I had trained myself to do it. The CA summer '08 exam had some of those essays where you had to just hear Honigberg in your head ("NOBODY!!"), stay calm, and try to make sense even though you had no idea what the question was about. To me, following the formula absolutely helped me keep my cool and pass.
TIPS FROM THOSE WHO HAVE FAILED THE BAR
Hi. I've spoken with people that failed the bar the first time (both passed on the second try). Here is the wisdom that they would like to share:
1) Try to do at least 4 essays on each subject. Obviously the paced schedule has you do more, but we all know that doing everything in the paced schedule is difficult. If you are forced into time tradeoff decisions, choose the essays. Both takers failed the bar with OK MBE scores, but got 50s and 55s on 3-4 essays, and this took them out of the running.
2) Organization on the essays matters A TON. You see how the BarBri model answers break problems down into issue and sub-issue headings? Do that. It can be a pain in the ass, but this is what the bar graders look for - or at least it is something they heavily appreciate. This is what both takers slacked on the first time around.
3) Do some multiple choice questions other than the ones BarBri assigned. PMBR, or some of the sample MBE questions from years past, which can be found here: http://www.ncbex.org/single-news-item/article/42/27/
As you may have heard, actual MBE questions don't really look like BarBri multiple choice questions. The BarBri questions are still helpful, but you want to accustom yourself to seeing different questioning styles before test day. You definitely want to avoid the 10 minutes of WTF paralysis that may occur on test day otherwise.
4) Spend some time on just plain rote memorization. Think practicing MBE questions will do this? Think again. You need to know the rule statements pretty accurately for the essays. Knowing some fuzzy principles will let you get by on the MBE, but it is going make your life difficult on the essays.
5) Don't blow off Performance Test prep. From here on out, try to do at least a couple per week. These things count double folks. If you bomb one and get a bad score(one of my sources got a 55), you're fighting an uphill battle.
6) If you're behind on studying, don't get discouraged. Both people I spoke to were also behind. One basically tried to learn all the non-MBE subjects in the 2nd to last week before the bar. Yet, both missed passing by ~100 scaled points, which is not that much. At this point, you have some more time than they did, so try and use it effectively by prioritizing. Again, prefer doing essay work over MBE work. Practicing essays in MBE topics will help your MBE score anyway, but the converse is not true. This is obvious, but it is also easily ignored, since essays are a huge pain.
Good luck everyone.
Thank you, 4:14!! I've already started to come to a realization about many of these tips (esp. #4), but it's helpful to see it as actual concrete advice.
Is it overkill to try to do every essay in the essay workbook?
Can anyone explain this? (From page 26 of the Crim Pro Mini Conviser section, part D.1).
If two Defendants are tried together and one has given a confession implicating the other, the right of confrontation prohibits use of that statement, even where the confession interlocks with the defendants own confession, which is admitted.
However, such a statement may be admitted if: (i) all portions referring to the other defendant can be eliminated; (ii) The confessing defendant takes the stand and subjects himself to cross-examination with respect to truth or falsity of what the statement asserts; and (iii) the confession of the non-testifying D is being used to rebut the defendant's claim that his confession was obtained coercively
The case is Bruton.
Basically, you have a 6th amendment right to confrontation at odds with a 5th amendment right not to testify.
If A and B are tried together and A has a confession that implicates B, and A doesn't testify, that's when you have the problem.
A has an absolute right not testify. B has an absolute right to confront his accuser (in this, case, A, because the confession implicates B)
Therefore, you can only admit the confession against A if all references to B are taken out. In this case, B has nothing he needs to cross examine on, and A can still refuse to testify.
Thanks Warren!
Thanks 4:14! Very helpful advice!
Exam Day Procedural Questions:
(1) If backpacks/bags aren't allowed, what are we supposed to carry our laptops, power cords, pencils, highlighters, lunch money :), etc. in?
(2) Any other general procedural tips re exam day?
(3) Any specific thoughts about the Oakland Convention Center location, in particular, from past test takers? (Cold, Hot, Plenty of Bathrooms, Good lunch spots, Parking???)
Bring your stuff in a clear plastic ziploc bag (a big one). You're going to basically hold your computer (grip it for dear life, to be exact). They let you leave your computer at the test center during lunch. I know it sounds sketchy but it's way safer than walking around with it during lunch (and there are tons of proctors watching it).
Re: Oakland in particular. There are lots of bathrooms, there was never a wait in the middle of the test (before/after maybe, but I didn't have to wait during the testtaking - and I'm a girl). They have water outside for you. Temp was cool because it is a really big room (but not cold), so bring a sweatshirt (and maybe avoid flipflops if your feet get cold). I ended up getting warm just from nervousness/excitement.
There are places to eat around there (the Oakland City Center across the street has lots of food and benches to sit on). A lot of people brought food, not wanting to deal with odering and paying, I guess. Lunch is a long time so take your time walking around and enjoying the sunshine (our test days last year were beautiful). If you don't want to talk about the test then avoid all other test-takers, or bring a magazine to read so no one bothers you.
I was fairly pleased with Oakland Convention Center last year. Good luck!
Also, upload your exam each day as soon as you get home, just for peace of mind. And don't freak out if you don't get through right away, there are lots of people trying to do it at once.
So, if you bring everything in a ziploc bag... is it possible to bring a lunch? Do people do that?
Secondly, what about a little case for your laptop -- is that even OK?
Thanks for the info about what to expect...helps ease concerns at least a little!
Thanks 4:06! Spot on what I looking for!
I heart nuts and boalts :)
Does anyone have any tips on how to manage time during the performance tests?
I simply keep running out of time on them.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the barbri MBE Review classes? Does barbri cover anything besides the answers to the simulated MBE?
Re: PTs - start writing at 1 1/2, even if you haven't finished reading or taking notes. It was a time crunch on the real thing too so make sure to give yourself half the time to write.
In Oakland they let you leave your backpack or whatever outside the room (there are people watching it, it's not like other non-bar people are milling around. So you can leave your lunch in there.
Also, in Oakland there is parking in the building (but it's expensive) and also random lots within a block or two, which are inexpensive. Don't forget that bart is an option (although I know people were worried that there would be some delay, so a lot of people avoided bart).
Are they serious about no phones? What do they do, give everyone a Terry frisk before you go in?
You can leave your phone with your other stuff (computer bag, backpack, etc). My phone was safe in my law school backpack, turned off, in San Mateo.
RE: PHONES
Just leave it in your room. You don't really need it, and it can cause you a really big problem. If it makes a sound during the exam, the proctors generally give you a warning. If after being warned it makes another sound, the proctors WILL KICK YOU OUT AND YOU WILL FAIL.
This is not a joke. I worked with someone last year who failed the CA because of this zero-tolerance nonsense.
how could you let it go off twice? seems like the first freak out would be enough.
So how are people planning on getting there?
I was planning on Bart. I know there is a risk of delays, but there is also a risk of traffic/car problems if you drive. I feel like the odds are better with Bart, especially if you leave really early.
Decisions, decisions...
I think that the odds of traffic accidents are MUCH higher than a BART delay. Even the biggest BART delays are about an hour, so I just plan on leaving with enough time to compensate. Plus, traffic at the end of the day will be a nightmare.
Anyplace nearby to get breakfast?
Am I missing something on the Remedies Essay 4 (Summer 2008)?
It's a contracts question that requires injunctive relief - yet appears to run a torts injunction analysis.
Cha Cha Is My Favorite Dance doesn't have any letters for balancing hardships or having property right requirements...
MPQ2, Subject Test Question 5...
The right to marriage is not fundamental, so mere rational basis scrutiny suffices.
Didn't even consider the E.P. argument.
Is Ken Starr working for BarBri these days?
The cha cha is for specific performance isn't it? Injunctive relief is the same analysis under both torts and contracts.
My issue with the answer was that it ran a permanent injunction analysis, when it seemed clear to me that he was looking for just a TRO and preliminary injunction. Am I wrong?
sexual orientation and/or marriage status is not a protected class, so EP would also be RB. Until SCOTUS says otherwise, that is.
McWho, I do not think you are wrong. I looked at the bar website, and one of the two published answers talked only about preliminary injunctions and TROs for that part of the question as well.
Anybody not get their bar exam cards yet? should I be calling?
to 10:37 AM, or anyone familiar with the San Mateo location, does this mean there is a safe place at the testing center to leave a bag at during the exam?
About right to marriage, my Chemerinsky notes says that under Privacy rights - the right to marry IS a fundamental right (except for prison inmates). So is it or isn't it?
The right to marry is fundamental. That means that everyone has a right to marry - even prison inmates. But with prisoners, the state's interest in secure, safe prisons permits some burdening of that right. There is a case about this somewhere in your con law book, which says that while the state can't prevent prisoners from marrying, they can prevent married inmates from co-habitating, or visiting, etc.
10:48 -
Thanks. But I was asking more in regards to 6:01PM's comment - that the MPQ2 stated that only rational basis was necessary for a State to deny two men the right to marry - because "the right to marriage is not fundamental."
But since the right to marriage is fundamental - shouldn't the State have to use strict scrutiny?
I think the BarBri explanation should have read "the right to marriage [as between opposite sex couples] is not fundamental." Marriage between a man and woman is deemed a fundamental intrest. Because opposite sex marriage is not deemed fundamental, and sexual orientation is not a suspect classification, rational basis scrutiny is used whether under substantive due process or equal protection.
I have a question on Friday's PT. (Arlen v. Farber)
The task memo for part B asked us to write an opening statement that incorporated the after-acquired evidence for impeachment to limit the Plaintiff's remedy.
However, the model answer weaves in the after acquired evidence to create a substantive defense and does not address the limited purposes of the impeachment and remedy.
Has anyone else noticed this?
My guess:
I figured that it would be sufficient to smear him in the opening, without telling the jury that I was doing so. Maybe that is what the answer is doing too.
You don't usually explain the law to the jury. For instance, you don't explain why a statement isn't hearsay. So in this case, all they need to know is that he is a lying turd.
If you had been told to assume that it was only admitted for a limited purpose, then perhaps you should describe the limitation.
Can't admit impeachment evidence on direct, only on cross. He has to testify before you can impeach, and therefore improper to say "we're gonna show you P is a liar" in the opening.
Whoa what? How is that precluded in opening?
SF Live took the 6 hour practice MBE today. Wow, that was tough. Felt fine time-wise, and had at least some idea how to answer nearly all of the questions. Still... result only 58%.
My problem wasn't in remembering the rules, but more in the interpretation of the fact patterns. I know that BarBri writes these questions, and that people keep saying that they are not representative of the real test, but I still can't help but be bothered by some of these.
Just two from the first 25 that stand out:
First #16 -- is it really foreseeable that an upscale gym would suffer lost profits from replacement bottled water to merit consequential damages? I didn't think so, and so I got the question wrong. I mean, nothing in the fact pattern indicated that the other water was in any way inferior. To me, there was no indication when the K was made that a replacement water would cause lost profits.
Second in # 19 -- is self-defense really the best defense to a crime of battery? Has BarBri ever seen a hockey game? To me, an opposing player skating a high rate of speed with his stick raised just indicates a check (which was impliedly consented to). To BarBri, it is an obvious assault warranting an act of self-defense. REALLY???
Did anyone else have similar feelings about these or other questions? I don't mean to vent, but am just feeling a bit discouraged at the moment.
As for the performance test...
Are people precisely following the Barbri method? For me it seems more natural to type my notes rather than handwriting on the index pages. I don't think I have a good enough memory (especially under stressful exam situations) to recreate the facts and holding of cases based on a few handwritten notes.
I also got 58%, well 58.5%. :oP But yeah, I started crying b/c I have been studying way too hard to be getting freakin 58%. I also think it's b/c the questions are just ridic in some ways. I don't always agree w/ the interpretations of the facts AT ALL. But yeah...not a lot I can do about that but keep trucking, I spose!?!? Ugh.
Don't cry! 58 only sounds so scary if you're aiming for 100... but really we need to get into the 60 or 70 range. You can totally, totally do that with two more weeks of studying.
Nah, not following their PT method of writing it all on sheets of paper. I go through and type up the important facts and rule quotes from the cases (really all you need). And then when I'm writing the answer, its already typed up for me.
Haven't done the MBE practice test, but I expect it to be harder than the actual test. Comparing the full day essay/PT they gave us, no doubt it was tougher than actual tests. Seems like they're trying to scare us. Listen to Honigsberg!
San Mateo:
Everyone leaves their bags along the wall of the building. They can't expect you to leave your bag outside, especially since you need to bring a laptop, charger, etc. I was paranoid about leaving my nice computer bag so I brought a sleeve and a canvas bag to hold everything in. The only people who could get near the bags are the proctors. And during the test, you aren't allowed to walk anywhere near the bags--obviously, so you can't cheat:)
FYI -- The pay parking situation was really congested in the mornings at San Mateo. This is not to say people were late because they parked, but I think it would have stressed me out to wait in the line to park at Bay Meadows. I was so nervous the first day that I could not eat breakfast let alone drive. I would suggest leaving really early or walking from the hotel.
By the way, I liked the location. I think it was remarkably quiet--so much better than exam rooms during finals at Boalt.
Oh I know this is random, but I wish I had brought a big pillow like some others did. It made the hard plastic chairs seem so much more comfortable.
Good luck. It's good to ask the little questions now so you don't go crazy thinking about it.
Another logistics question:
Is there a two hour lunch break? As I remember the details from the CA bar mailing: seated by 8:15, start by 9, done by noon, collecting materials, out by 12:15? Then we don't start again until 2?
What the heck do you do with all that time?
2-martini lunch. quite the performance enhancer.
SF / Live lecture people in CA:
MBE workshop worth attending? Or better to just go over answers on our own and skip those two days?
I attended. It's a bit tedious, but I think it was good. If you've watched the Enhancer lectures, it's the same guy and the same format -- he goes through the questions in blocks organized by subject. Today was Con Law, Contracts, and Crim. Personally, I just don't have the discipline to go over 200 questions on my own, so it was good in that respect.
I was, however, one of only maybe 20 or 30 people there (out of maybe 300 or 400), and I was the only Boaltie. It was a little weird, but on the plus side Schonholz (sp?) approached me to make sure he was in the right place, and I asked him what he thought about the test.
For those of you who were upset over yesterday's results, he told me that this test was "brually tough," and that a score in the high 50's was excellent. Apparently the average is somewhere around 101 questions right.
Good luck to all.
Can I make a friendly suggestion to go ahead and get your laptop registered? I had some silly problem downloading it where the "installation package did not exist" when I clicked their download link. It could be my firewall or something, but when I e-mailed them, they said, "you need to call." And they close at 5:30 EASTERN time. I had to call them twice and wait to get an actual person on the phone who just gave me a different link to an installer that did work. This isn't a major problem or anything, but I waited on hold about 25 minutes today. I imagine closer to the bar, that could be much worse. Probably it'll be easy and take 5 minutes. And better safe than sorry.
For people who haven't taken the full day simulated MBE w/ BarBri, make sure you do the right test. The Bar Bri instructions aren't very clear. You're NOT supposed to do the "full day" test that's in the "MPQ2" book. You ARE supposed to take the full day test that's in the "MSE" book (Multistate maximizer simulated MBE).
I love the MBE questions that involve a decision about whether bees are a domestic or wild animal. Somehow, they failed to teach me that in law school!
What's the answer? I think honey bees would be domestic, because they're akin to a bull or cow. However, if they were African Killer Bees I think they'd be wild.
I believe the bees attacked but they were honeybees that were provoked. And you would be right. That kind of bees were domestic according to the answer.
A few tips from someone who took the bar in Oakland last year:
(i) DO NOT leave anything out on your table or your computer that could be construed you trying to cheat. I believe last year a Boaltie was cited because she had a post-it note taped to her computer with the computer's password (it was a rented computer). The proctors are strict and seem kind of on the unreasonable side. Take them seriously and show them respect, however obnoxious they are.
(ii) I found it really helpful to purchase the wireless at the Oakland Marriott, so I could immediately upload my exams after taking them- this gave me a nice piece of mind.
(iii) Be prepared to sit next to someone obnoxious. The woman next to me told me numerous times that her law school (I think it was JFK or something) was much better than Boalt because of its small class size.
(iv) Bring ear plugs if the sound of typing bothers you.
speaking of post-its or tabs of any kind, am i correct in assuming they are not allowed for PTs?
Also, are highlighters allowed during the MBE?
Sorry if these seem like stupid questions...
JFK is better than Boalt. JFK (the law school) was named after a famous president. Boalt was named after an obscure old lady.
There's a list of what is and isn't allowed with your admission ticket. Don't worry. You can bring 2 pillows (without cases) and a footstool! But no post-its. They seem to disallow anything you can write on. But highlighters are permitted. As are rulers?
Just in case the person that fits this doesn't check craigslist, I thought I would help you out:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mis/1268932832.html
hot tip: you can watch all the MBE lectures from home without using up your "clicks"... in case that's more productive for you!
Thanks for the tip, 6:20! I thought they weren't online since they weren't under the Make-Up Lectures section.
I can't get any BarBri lectures to play on my computer. Did anyone just have "BarBri" in a circle pop up when they tried to watch a lecture? Did you figure out what to do to fix it? Mainly, I didn't go to the Practice MBE explanation days and I'm wondering what they said about how everyone did on the test--what was the average and all. They said they were going to before the test, but now I can't watch the video to see what they said!
I can't get any BarBri lectures to play on my computer. Did anyone just have "BarBri" in a circle pop up when they tried to watch a lecture? Did you figure out what to do to fix it? Mainly, I didn't go to the Practice MBE explanation days and I'm wondering what they said about how everyone did on the test--what was the average and all. They said they were going to before the test, but now I can't watch the video to see what they said!
I had to download some software - a newer version of whatever is specified - to get the lectures to show on my computer.
Anyone in SF have an average or median score?
6:20 again here. The lectures are under the "MBE maximizer" and I actually found them more useful than the MBE preview lectures going over the exam. You should be able to access them without using up any of your six clicks provided you have the correct software.
Totally stumped the tech support guy. I guess I'm the only one who couldn't get it to work. The guy had me do the following from his troubleshooting book: 1) clear temporary internet files, 2) plug into the router directly, 3) download Windows Media Player 11.
Then I realized I just needed to suspend my firewall for five minutes to get it started.
There is no way I'm going to know CA evidence and civ pro distinctions. This is just too much information to memorize.
In the intro, the lecturer (Guzman) said that the average from last year was 108, and he proceeded to say the "great majority" of BarBri students went on to score significantly higher on the actual MBE (I can't remember the exact number of points he said).
He also mentioned we shouldn't forget that we get extra points with the scaled score business, and claimed that after listening to both days of the MBE Maximizer review we can expect to improve 10-15 points. Hmm.
The mean is not specifically listed on this years, but 116 (58% right) was in the 60% percentile.
darn i hit last year's avg right on with 108/200, but was certainly shy of this year's. oh well, hopefully it'll go better on the actual test day!
Does anyone have a comment or opinion on the appropriateness of dropping a case name in on the written essays, if we are 100% that it is the correct case and applicable to the issue at hand?
Does it make us seem a little more knowledgeable and maybe get some extra points, or is it too likely to 'wake' the reader and make us no longer sheep?
I would not risk it unless the rest of the essay was on point -- it will wake the reader up and might make him/her think that you are trying to compensate for something else. The only ones I plan to use because they are so ingrained into the rules of law are Miranda, M'Naghten, Lucas. I might be forgetting one or two that fall into this category, but you catch my drift... HTH.
I also have a question re MBE practice test -- did anyone do significantly better on the second half? I'm wondering if the p.m. session was easier or if I should attribute the 20 point disparity in my scores to something else. Maybe I need to warm up first?
FWIW, my scores from the first and second half were only 2 points apart.
My two halves had identical scores.
And one of the professors said go ahead and use a case name if you're sure it's the right one.
my second half actually got worse.
my second half was significantly better
my second half substantially outweighed my probative value.
My first and second halves were the same.
thanks for the responses everyone - looks like i probably need to warm up before the test.
Is getting an 85% average on the mixed subject tests luring me into a false sense of security? How much does this reflect my ability to perform on the exam vs. my ability just to spit back barbri-like questions? In other words, I know exam questions are harder than barbri questions - but what else is there to do about it?
3:47- all you need to do to dispel that false sense of security is start taking sets 5 and 6 of the single subject tests.
Not that you'll learn anything from them mind you, but you probably won't get 85%
anyone care to share what an average score for the PMBR 3-day final review should be? I got 115 - should I be concerned?
In my non-Cali PMBR class they said the average score for Kaplan students was a 99/200 on the practice test, and ~150/200 on the real MBE, so you're probably in good shape.
Anyone NOT doing PMBR? I feel like I'm the last one on earth...
Not doing PMBR over here. I've had enough with the MBE. The answer is on the page somewhere and I've got to memorize this crap to regurgitate into essays.
I'm not doing PMBR either. At this point, I'd rather spend my time on the essays.
Also not doing pmbr - I dont think boalties need to be told how to do multiple choice - it's more about learning the law and prepping for essay dumps at this point.
Some light humor got from a friend on barbri MBE questions - here.
civ pro question:
personal jurisdiction has 4 options, only one is the "long arm" statute and that requires a due process analysis.
but do you have to run a due process analysis on the other three options (i.e. personal service within the state)?
I just spent a while reading old answers off the bar website. The posted answers are really, really good. I realize that the posted essays all got high scores, but I still feel pretty intimidated. How do people write 9-10 pages in an hour?
FREQUENCY OF ESSAY QUESTIONS
http://www.all4jds.com/Forums/Essay-Frequency-Chart.aspx
A few observations
1) Some topics are frequently tested topics (almost always tested), whereas some topics are tested periodically. For the latter, it looks like the examiners rarely let a topic go untested for more than 2 consecutive exams.
2) The February '09 bar essays aren't on the chart, but they were:
TORTS (defamation)
CONTRACTS
CORPORATIONS
PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY
CIVIL PROCEDURE (federal only)
EVIDENCE (with CA distinctions)
3) Based on all this data, I'd probably break down the essay subjects into the three following groups:
FREQUENTLY TESTED SUBJECTS
================================
TRUSTS/WILLS - some combo on nearly every bar exam
PROF RESP
REMEDIES - mostly cross-tested frequently
EVIDENCE
CON LAW
PERIODIC SUBJECTS DUE TO BE TESTED
================================
CRIMES - it's gone 2 cycles without being tested
CIV PRO - it was tested in February but otherwise hasn't been tested much
COMMUNITY PROPERTY - it's gone 2 cycles without being tested
THE REST, ROUGHLY IN ORDER OF FREQUENCY
================================
PROPERTY
CONTRACTS
TORTS
CORPORATIONS
to 9:40, i don't think you always do the DP analysis with the traditional forms of personal jxn because the person is in the state i.e. domiciled there, served personally without using fraud, or has consented. DP isn't a huge issue in those cases unless the facts suggest it would be unfair, which i think is only likely when the plaintiff "catches" the person in the state and serves him that way (then i would assume you also need to consider minimum contacts). what does everyone else think?
Presence in a state is presence. You don't have to be domiciled to be served, and that doesn't raise any DP concerns. You can even be served while flying over a state.
You can even be served while flying over a state.
That's what she said.
I don't know, my standard for these is as liberal as the Federal Rules' pleading standard, but this is a bit of a close call. Judges? Does 3:11 get credit?
Oh hell yes! 3:11 is the (wo)man of the hour!
2:00pm: thanks, very helpful
3:11
Thank you for making me laugh!
I am badly slowing down. Don't think I have surfed this much internet in my life. Just can't seem to gather up the motivation to continue to read my outlines. Ugh.
Any words of inspiration?
Does Tiger check his email on the 18th hole? (not counting when he misses the cut.)
BUCK UP YOU ARE ALMOST THERE.
Now I'm going to go check my email. Again.
Take a look at the evidence question for this past winter, February 2009. Its a california criminal case, and barely any discussion of prop 8 in the model answers. One answer mentions it briefly, the other not at all. Unless I'm mistaken, it seems applicable to every question. Am I wrong? I thought prop 8 was THE one thing to know about california evidence distinctions. If so, and you can get the best grade in the state without discussing it, then to hell with it! No?
Apparently we are only supposed to discuss CA evidence law if question asks for it, but Barbri includes CA distinctions "for practice."
Horseshit, I know.
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