The Hammer Falls
Well folks, it's almost over. The giant questionmark hanging over the Summer Classes of 2009 is about to transform into an exclamation point. I was discussing the prospects of getting an offer with a friend today, and we agreed that there is no result that will not shock us. If everyone gets offers, that's shocking. If no one does, also shocking. Even if offer rates drop to 50-80%, as some predict, that too will be unprecedented in recent history.
I don't know what will happen to me yet, but I know it will confuse the hell out of me. Obviously, I would like an offer. The prospect of going through OCIP again gives me night terrors. But, if I get an offer and good people I know do not, I will be racked with surivor's guilt. (If you get one and I don't, I expect nothing less from you.) If I do not get an offer, it's back to the drawing board. Do I keep at it in this miserable economy, move to a gentler market, try public interest, chase my dreams of professional writing? How will I manage to pay rent under any of these alternatives, let alone student loans?
This is a pickle that I'm sure many of us will find ourselves in during the coming months. Let me be the first to say, we will all be fine. We're smart, talented, motivated, and nerdy; someone somewhere will eventually want to pay us for something. As hackneyed as it is to say it, this too shall pass.
But while it's passing, I expect there will be a lot of questions, emotions, freakouts, rants, tears, laughter, flatulence, and introspection. Let Nuts and Boalts be a place where we can come together and share such things, provide advice or commisseration, and just generally work through it as peers.
As you start to find out more about your career prospects, share your thoughts below. Let us know if you've been deferred and how you plan to spend the time. Bitch your heart out if you got no offered. Fill us in on how you're coping, and give some advice to others in the same boat. And this doesn't have to be just a Whiners' Association conference. If you secured an offer in this economy, we want to congratulate you. If you never even thought about going to a firm and are now enjoying some public interest option and laughing at me right now, that's cool; I deserve it. We can appreciate both tales of woe and redemption.
I'm going to end this post before it gets any more touchy-feely. But keep it in mind as an outlet for your tormented thoughts in this shifting market. Let's face it, no one else wants to hear your crap. That's why you're here.
I don't know what will happen to me yet, but I know it will confuse the hell out of me. Obviously, I would like an offer. The prospect of going through OCIP again gives me night terrors. But, if I get an offer and good people I know do not, I will be racked with surivor's guilt. (If you get one and I don't, I expect nothing less from you.) If I do not get an offer, it's back to the drawing board. Do I keep at it in this miserable economy, move to a gentler market, try public interest, chase my dreams of professional writing? How will I manage to pay rent under any of these alternatives, let alone student loans?
This is a pickle that I'm sure many of us will find ourselves in during the coming months. Let me be the first to say, we will all be fine. We're smart, talented, motivated, and nerdy; someone somewhere will eventually want to pay us for something. As hackneyed as it is to say it, this too shall pass.
But while it's passing, I expect there will be a lot of questions, emotions, freakouts, rants, tears, laughter, flatulence, and introspection. Let Nuts and Boalts be a place where we can come together and share such things, provide advice or commisseration, and just generally work through it as peers.
As you start to find out more about your career prospects, share your thoughts below. Let us know if you've been deferred and how you plan to spend the time. Bitch your heart out if you got no offered. Fill us in on how you're coping, and give some advice to others in the same boat. And this doesn't have to be just a Whiners' Association conference. If you secured an offer in this economy, we want to congratulate you. If you never even thought about going to a firm and are now enjoying some public interest option and laughing at me right now, that's cool; I deserve it. We can appreciate both tales of woe and redemption.
I'm going to end this post before it gets any more touchy-feely. But keep it in mind as an outlet for your tormented thoughts in this shifting market. Let's face it, no one else wants to hear your crap. That's why you're here.
Labels: OCIP/Employment
39 Comments:
SF to 190k!!!
There are so many ways to get a loan even with a bad credit
Good luck everyone! May the offers find their way to Boalties.
Word verification: Kinder. Aww!
I think I need to add several caveats to this post.
The first caveat is that for two summers in a row, I've heard and seen nothing but great things about/from Boalties. So, assume most if not all of you did a bang up job impressing your future employers, and this doesn't apply to any of you.
The second caveat is that what follows is not coming from any position of authority or anything, and it's simply my reflections on a story relayed to me by another. It passes judgment, but again, not meant to ascribe any official creed to it.
That said, I heard a story of a summer from an unknown school at an unknown firm who complained to an associate that the firm's breakfast (might be free breakfast to the summers?) was not healthy enough and that the summer program could be improved in that regard. And this is what has me torn. On the one hand, constructive criticism should be welcome. On the other hand, in this economic climate (shoutout PB!), is it the wisest move to complain about the food you get? My gut reaction is that the complaint is about something so trivial and non-essential, that just by making it the summer comes across as whiny with a sense of entitlement. Maybe I'm just jaded about this. But my $0.02 is that I wouldn't recommend any other summer make such superficial complaints about something they should have no expectation of getting in the first place.
To clarify, the caveats are to my comment and not to Dan's OP.
Everyone in my V50 NY firm got an offer.
Summer at my V10 SF firm ends today, but they're waiting until mid-August to extend offers.
My firm is also waiting until mid-August. I don't know what V__ means, so I'll just say mine is V&.
Mid august is earlier than I finished working last summer, and offers didn't come until September. So consider yourselves lucky?
Dan, you are way cool for not knowing. Very serious.
If you actually want to know, it refers to the firm's vault rank.
yes, Dan. it is apparently "way cool" to not know the ultimate ranking system of biglaw firms.
you obviously do not work, nor do you care to work, in biglaw. and that's fine, but that alone doesn't make you cool.
"ultimate ranking system"?
fell out of my chair laughing.
Ok, 11:30 was a little dramatic, but I'm not sure why somebody who hasn't bothered to do his due diligence on his firm (which would include, inter alia, the Vault listing and commentary) is considered "way cool."
Not that Vault rankings are by any means determinative, but they are one of many pieces of information that we should be considering when making our employment choices. If anything, they give us a good insight on what other attorneys think of our future firm.
I just received an offer from my firm and accepted immediately. Couldn't be more excited. Such a relief.
Best of luck to everybody.
I'm really scared that I'll get no-offered.
Got an offer from a V5 firm in DC. Don't know our numbers for the whole class, though.
No-offered here. 3L OCI here I come!
I like how you people think Vault somehow matters.
Look, outside the top few firms (not even by Vault standards) it is a total crapshoot what that ranking means to you.
Heller was ranked. Good choice to follow Vault on that one.
Firms in the top 20 vault firms have (1) deferred for a year, (2) no-offered summers who did nothing wrong, and (3) pushed back start dates with no compensation.
So when you say that it is some kind of holy script, realize that you are thinking that simply because you have no idea what else is out there.
Further, some of the BEST SF firms have no place in Vault whatsoever. They pay just as much, and in many cases have a much better work environment.
McWho,
I think people just thought it was odd that Dan doesn't even know what "V#" means. It was even weirder that you look up to him because of that.
I admire people that don't know the meaning of WGWAG too.
What is the issue here? Vault is stupid. It is a ranking system based entirely on how cool first year associates think their firm is. Not wasting time on knowing what V3424809 means is a good thing.
Dan apparently chose a firm that he thought was good on his own. So I think that was a good call. Do I need to explain this more?
I guess I should add that I made the incredible logical leap of assuming that (1) if Dan didn't know what V50 means, he (2) probably didn't consult Vault to any significant degree.
I could be wrong, I suppose.
Oooh! McWho is so EDGY and COOL!
Mcwho,
are you being deliberately obtuse? no one cares how much weight Dan gives the Vault rankings. it's that he doesn't even know what they are. he obviously didn't do enough research on his firm.
I'm done being patient with you anon. Simply put, you can research firms outside of Vault. Dan did that. No Vault research is required if you actually know about the firm through real life contacts.
If you still feel that the only way to find a quality firm is to look at a one page summary of an associate survey, then good luck to you. I really can't offer any help to someone with your view.
I would like to see you call alums obtuse when you come crawling back asking for advice when your precious v50 firm goes under, defers your ass until 2011, or screws you in some other way typical of the v100.
If you knew Dan, or where he worked, maybe you wouldn't be making these asinine critiques of a classmate.
McWho's ridiculous assumptions in his previous post:
1. Anon didn't know one can research outside of Vault.
2. Vault only contains one page summaries.
3. Anon did, in fact, do no research outside of said one page summary found in Vault.
4. Anon thinks the only way one can find a quality firm is through Vault.
5. Anon works at a V100.
6. As shown by Dan's character, and where he works, Anon's comments are inherently asinine.
Your assumptions, McWho, and your lack of ability to comprehend Anon's comments make you seem asinine and obtuse.
Maybe, but one thing that's no longer an assumption is that you're a DB. If the most you can contribute to a conversation about summer offers is nitpicking about V__, you're better off commenting on ATL.
This post is making me Firsty.
Why is this such a violent chain of anonymous replies? McWho said that Dan is cool for not knowing about Vault. So what? Why do you care?
There are like 30 ways to research a firm, but from the discussion here, if you don't look at Vault, you are destined for the unemployment line, or a firm where they practice decimation every performance review.
-a rising 3L who doesn't want every alum to think our class is full of DBs.
I also had no idea what V# meant. I initially thought it was shorthand for the name of some prestigious firm.
Anyway, as usual, the anons are making the rest of us look bad. I didn't consult Vault in doing my firm research either. There are many other perfectly legitimate ways to evaluate where you want to work. Picking a firm because it's the highest ranked firm that would take you reveals a pretty severe character flaw. In fact, judging by the acidic responses, I think it's fair to assume that someone is using the V# as a mask for his insecurity.
I suppose there is really no tactful way to find out from your fellow summers whether or not they got offers? I just heard the good news, and I want to know how much survivor guilt I should or shouldn't be feeling.
Fingers crossed for everyone still waiting!
All the boalties at my firm got an offer. Go us!
情趣按摩棒,自慰套,角色扮演,按摩棒,跳蛋,跳蛋,
情趣,情趣,角色扮演服,吊帶襪,丁字褲,情趣用品,情趣用品,跳蛋,男女,
潤滑液,SM,情趣內衣,內衣,性感內衣,自慰器,充氣娃娃,AV,
按摩棒,電動按摩棒,飛機杯,視訊,自慰套,自慰套,
Whoa, I guess if you leave for a week you risk missing a rousing debate about whether you are "cool" or an idiot? Let me assure you that I am neither.
I have heard of the Vault rankings. I did not know that "V#" was shorthand for anything. I also have no idea what my firm (yes, I do hope to work for a firm) ranks. I met them at OCIP, enjoyed the people, went to the callback, loved the office and people, and then called everyone I know who knows anything (quite a few people), all of whom told me it was a solid firm.
I'm pretty sure that's more to go on than some number based on methodology that I assume is roughly equivalent to the US News rankings.
Dan,
If you don't get the offer, rest assured it was because you never checked out their Vault ranking.
Anyway, thanks to everyone who has shared news about their offer situation (the actual purpose of this thread)! Good luck to all of you who haven't heard yet.
maybe we can start a new thread on this topic?
Everyone in my summer class got an offer except for one person :-( Bummer. Makes it hard to feel good about your own offer when you know other good people are about to be scrambling.
Well, in the interest of full disclosure, I should share the fact that I did not get an offer.
Fall OCIP, here I come!
A friend and I will be hosting a "no offer" party for any other similarly situated.
I'm so sorry to hear that, Dan. While that is rough, at least you can move on now rather than cling to a faux offer to begin in 2015 if the firm really needs you.
Can we maybe get a new thread on this?
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