Look Who's Come Crawling Back
When debating bar trip locations, we (the three of us in question) universally agreed to skip Paris because the lone francophone had already been, and the rest of us were not eager to put up with haughty, arrogant snobbery for using English. Actually, the reluctance of the French to embrace English as the new lingua franca (!) has bothered me for quite some time. This is why French tourists received the worst marks in a recent survey (reluctance to speak English overseas and no tipping).
Well when the tourist economy (that the French seem to forget is essential) collapses, their mood changes. This story brought a smile to my face--and reminded me of the wonderful English signs in Barcelona.
Well when the tourist economy (that the French seem to forget is essential) collapses, their mood changes. This story brought a smile to my face--and reminded me of the wonderful English signs in Barcelona.
posted by Armen Adzhemyan at 11:38 PM
49 Comments:
I've encountered more haughty, arrogant snobbery on this blog than I have anywhere in France.
Touche. But N&B is not a tourist destination.
I went to France on my bar trip last summer and it was magnifique! We stayed in Paris, and also drove through the countryside and stayed in little B&Bs and had wonderful experiences everywhere. People were overall really nice to us (albeit VERY pushy drivers), and did not hassle me even though my French is extremely limited. I was actually expecting the stereotype where my English would be sneered at and my attempts at French more sneered at, but I found the people really helpful and kind. Don't let the stereotype keep you from going! I'd go back in a heartbeat...
The stereotypes about the French are just about as accurate as the stereotypes about the obnoxtious, self-important Americans... oh wait, look who authored the original post.
Ladies and gentlemen, PLEASE, for the sake of every reader here, think your insults through. There are so many more clever ways to dog on people. And when firefox puts that dotted red line under a word you just typed, its because you didn't spell it correctly.
My work won't let me have Firefox :(
Sacrebleu!!
Do they make you use abacus and chisel as well?
Firefox won't help when a word is spelled correctly but not used correctly.
Its - possessive
It's - it is
Bravo 11:10! Everyone else - take note. A perfect example of a proper insult.
yes, as the bar gets closer let's use pettier and pettier insults to make people more and more punchy. brav-f'n-o.
Why assume that French or any pther people speak English.
Take a look at http://www.esperanto.net
Esperanto works! I’ve used it in speech and writing - and sung in it - in about fifteen countries over recent years.
Indeed, the language has some remarkable practical benefits. Personally, I’ve made friends around the world through Esperanto that I would never have been able to communicate with otherwise. And then there’s the Pasporta Servo, which provides free lodging and local information to Esperanto-speaking travellers in over 90 countries. In the past few years I have had guided tours of Berlin and Milan and Douala in Cameroon in the planned language. I have discussed philosophy with a Slovene poet, humour on television with a Bulgarian TV producer. I’ve discussed what life was like in East Berlin before the wall came down, how to cook perfect spaghetti, the advantages and disadvantages of monarchy, and so on.
You sir, are a dork.
Last time I was in Paris, I said to myself, "Never, ever, again."
Only been to France twice. In my two weeks in Paris I encountered polite, business-like people and outright friendly people. On a road trip through Provence and the Loire valley, only helpful, friendly people. I solved the no English problem by speaking French. When they heard how bad my French is, they replied in English. Like most places, France has people of all types.
True: France, like all places, has people of all types. But few countries are so fun to bash. Why is that?
On the subject of French-bashing:
Type "French military victories" in at the google homepage and then click "I'm feeling lucky" rather than search.
Google must have a good sense of humor.
given that e-mail from danielle, I bet law review calls are going out soon.
anyone heard?
I'll confirm that CLR is calling. I just got one. Pretty surprised!
Je vous enmerde, connards!
Just wanted to second the confirmation that CLR is calling.
Wow -- a whole post about bar trips when some people don't have jobs or are being deferred indefinitely and many of us are wondering how the hell we are going to afford health insurance after August 14th -- who is arrogant now? Have you all forgotten what is happening to most people in this economy, including many of your fellow classmates?
Is basic literacy too much to ask for?
12:48 am - you are (probably) studying for the bar, stressed out, and freaking out about the future. You know what you need? A BAR TRIP! You only get to live in the post-bar "I have the rest of my life to figure out my career options so I'm going to irresponsibly spend money now" bubble once. Yes times are scary, but there are lots of low-cost options available (i.e., road trip). Sheesh. It's the one thing your classmates have to look forward to in this final 10 days of bar study - let them have it.
I think its funny that the authors of this blog combine (1) a dislike of French resistance to English's linguistic world domination with (2) grammar nazism about English, because what's more French than grammar nazism? See, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acad%C3%A9mie_fran%C3%A7aise. The great thing about English, I'm sure you've heard anti-grammar nazis like me say many times, is its omnivorous appetite for words from other languages, its irrepressible creativity, the way it bends to serve the purposes of far-flung subcultures--i.e. that unlike French (and, a fortiori, Esperanto!) its a decentralized, organic social phenomenon like the free market or the common law rather than a chauvinistic monument to national greatness (or universalitic rationality) handed down from dictators on high.
(But for all that, I disagree with Armen's opinion about tourism as well. Foreign languages are part of the foreign-ness that make foreign travel fun. If you want to avoid discomfort, stay home.)
Sigh. I honestly do not understand comments like that one.
I love to travel, I love other languages, and I love the sense of discovery when a new concept comes springs life as I learn new word. At the same time, I cannot stand phrases like "decentralized, organic social phenomenon." None of that is incompatible -- you don't have to be a Nazi to realize that phrases like THAT ruin language.
No offence intended, but what on earth is the sentence containing that phrase supposed to mean? That language is wonderful? That it evolves? That it grows with our culture? Yes, yes, and yes. But why can't you just (and again, no offense intended) say so, instead of ripping off a set of hackneyed words from some social science textbook?
Patrick, that's the type of neocentric egoist brattitude that good citizens like 8:55 are trying to fight!
Toney, as Homer tells Marge when the giant Marshmallow Man keeps destroying the town, "Don't you get tired of being wrong?"
More seriously, the legalese that we've all come to learn through law school is half French, half Latin, and half gibberish. And that's great. But the same evolution that's constantly occurring in English is being stunted in French. That's only part of my gripe. The other part is the resistance by the French to accepting that their language has not been the universal language for over half a century now.
8:55 falls completely flat by demanding that we all learn the language of the travel destination or stay home. Do we also not have treaties with different countries? Do we have all our pilots learn Mongolian when flying into Ulan Bator? No, of course not. English is a perfectly acceptable form of communication when either side doesn't understand the primary language. To insist otherwise is just being French about it.
Please do not fart in my general direction.
Armen, as is evident by the word "brattitude", I was joking.
Toney, as evidenced by my reference to a 265 lbs (on a good day) cartoon character being attacked by a giant Marshmallow Man, I was dead serious.
Tsk. That'll teach you to mix good points with jocular mediocrity!
Armen, this is 8:55. I agree with the first part of what you wrote about the English/French thing. The only thing I don't agree about is that the French should accept the dominance of English merely because it’s dominant. I like encountering foreign things as a tourist, and (within limits) the more foreign the better. I think its cool that France is stubborn in a way that is foreign to us; I’m richer as a tourist for it. That’s all I wanted to stick up for, and nothing more--clearly your own touristic preferences are different, and far be it from me to criticize them or say that mine are demonstrably better. I never demanded that you learn French before you go to France or that pilots learn Mongolian. And surely we agree that ultimately the French, like yourself, get to decide what language they want to speak or not speak.
Patrick, I'm sorry you didn't like my word choice in the other part of my comment. This wasn’t an intentional or even negligent attack on your beloved English; if I had your facility with language, I would use it.
But since you asked what the sentence was supposed to mean, I’ll try to explain a little better. When I said language was “decentralized” and “organic,” I wasn’t trying to say that language is wonderful, grows with culture, and evolves. I was trying to suggest that it’s no coincidence that French is controlled by a fraternity of “immortals” and English isn’t: the two approaches to language management mirror the differences between other “social phenomena” in civilizations, the kind of things that tourists like me and Armen notice when we visit. French civilization has a romantic, statist vibe and idiosyncratically equates patriotism with the triumph of Reason. Its capital is engineered with broad avenues and symbolic sight lines, and it is governed by a rational civil code. English civilization is pragmatic, instrumentalist, and elevates individual freedom over national cultural coherence–the product of a political contract (the Magna Carta) that decentralized power to the nobles, an economic idea (laissez faire) that diffused decision making throughout the population, and a legal system (the common law) that resisted codification. London suits English civilization the same way Paris suits French civilization—it’s an organic accretion of villages, with twisting streets that track old footpaths rather than pompous, engineered boulevards.
All that is just what I ripped off from those “social science textbooks.” In the context of this post, I just wanted to suggest that the descriptive attitude toward grammar & lexicography that I favor coheres with Anglo-Saxon culture, whereas the prescriptive attitude I most often see expressed on this blog (think of the grammar contests, the haughty correction of minor mistakes, the pedantic lectures on its/it’s, and, not coincidentally, your own attack on my diction) coheres better with Continental culture. Or, since fascism is the most sinister (and therefore most rhetorically valuable) expression of the particular aspects of Continental culture I’m talking about, and since I want to practice what I preach and not, like, get my panties all in a bunch about affronts to the precision of the English language, its “grammar Nazism.”
To 8:07 -- yes I am stressed about the bar, but I was annoyed about the bar trip talk well before bar study began. You all assume that everyone has the privilege of taking a bar trip. Personally, I am starting my minimum-wage public interest job 2 weeks after the bar, and will have neither the time nor the money to even go on a road trip. Some of us literally do not have $100 to spare, and you all are talking in the hallways about your trips to Paris and Nepal. Be a little sensitive people. The disparity in salaries among lawyers is something the big firm folks often forget. And no, I did not make a choice. I did not get an offer from my firm, after working 12-hour days all last summer. I am very happy to be doing public interest, which is what I eventually wanted to do anyway, but no, I did not choose to be so broke as to not be able to afford anything but mac and cheese right now.
People are excited about their trips. Deal with it, or better yet, be happy for them. You don't have to spend $30k to go on a nice vacation. Drive down the coast or something... you can probably get away for a couple days for a few hundred bucks, and still find some time for relaxation and reflection, which is what vacation is all about.
There's always something to be sensitive about. Children are starving, soldiers are dying, literally thousands of people have never seen the Big Lebowski. Yet I'm sure you're not going to let any of these tragedies completely repress every shred of excitement for the rest of your life.
i'm going abroad but while i'm there i will have empathy for those who cannot.
3:33 PM
If you are that sensitive about it, you have probably made one (or more) wrong choices.
Guys, lay off 3:33. S/he is one week away from the bar and is likely very stressed. People take their anger and stress about the bar out on the weirdest topics or people.
And to 3:33 - I really hope this is just the bar talking ...
The bar exam is lame.
3:33 -- nope, not just the bar talking. Just shocked in general at the overwhelming inability of prospective law firm law students to appreciate what is going on in the rest of the world economically. And it's not just about this post, which is really quite benign. All I was suggesting is that maybe next time you are in a room with a bunch of your fellow law students, and I am happy to say that I will never be in such a room again, be aware of the fact that someone in the group to which your are bragging may not share your financial means. That's all. It didn't come up as much in law school since we were all poor then. But things are changing. Many of you will be going golfing every weekend (thank god I am not that person), others, who have chosen to actually do something good for the universe, will not be of such means. Just be aware of it.
right, because nobody who worked for a law firm ever did anything good for the universe.
Get over yourself, bar or not, nobody is amused
People at law firms who do good things do them out of guilt -- it's like, oh, well I'm screwing over 100 people a day, maybe I'll help one person a year, and still earn my 200K. Come on. If you are going to a firm, at least be honest about it. Don't act like you are out to help people. The only reason I worked for a law firm last year was money, pure and simple, and it made me rather sick. I am very grateful that I learned that before I was 40, miserable, and realized I had done nothing meaningful with my life.
I am an '08 grad and I have to agree that the bar trip talk in the hallways of barbri got pretty annoying. I got asked 4 times in two weeks where I was going on my "bar trip," as if "bar trip" was some universally recognized activity in which everyone engaged. The reality is that really only the folks who work at law firms go on these big bar trips. The rest of us just don't have the money and usually have to start work right away, and barely have enough time to move.
Toney -- your analogy to starving children and other such calamities is ridiculous. You are not milling about in a room of starving children bragging about food -- but you are in fact very likely to be discussing the fruits of big salaries (as evidenced by a big bar trip) with someone who can't afford one.
J'adore the first comment on this blog, "I've encountered more haughty, arrogant snobbery on this blog than I have anywhere in France." Brilliant! It's so true, and yet I can't stop coming back -- must be because I wasn't hugged enough as a child or something.
The best thing about leaving law school will be escaping the constant judgment of fellow students. It was like you have to constantly watch what you say and do because people are just waiting to figure out what box they think you belong in. Slacker or gunner or red hot or whatever. One person's deeming people insensitive for being excited about their vacation? Someone is assuming people are greedy and going golfing every weekend because they're working for a big firm. I'm working at a firm and I can't afford a big bar trip because I have a quarter of a million dollars in student loans. But even if I didn't, I still think I might actually like to work there. Not everybody is the same or fits into some kind of mold that you create in your mind. I swear, nowhere else in the world do you find such censoriousness. Good riddance.
Actually, the ONLY time I brag about food is in rooms full of starving children.
Toney: Mmm... I can't eat even half of this meatloaf. I literally have so much that I have no choice but to turn it into fertilizer for my yuppy organic limousine liberal garden of heirloom tomatoes.
Starving Child #1: Please sir, can I have some?
Toney: Do you work at a law firm?
SC1: Yes.
Toney: Then you've never done good in this world. You can die.
SC1: I'll starve before I get to go on my bar trip... *cough* *cough*
SC2: This worm tastes like happy!
To 11:23
You are actually quite wrong. The vast majority of people in this country this ALL lawyers all scum. I get it all the time. If I reject a guy for a date, it's because I'm a lawyer and I'm scum. Doesn't matter the reason. Doesn't matter that I'm a public interest lawyer. You will experience a lot more judgment once you actually become a lawyer rather than simply being a law student. So get over yourself that you are some victim of your fellow colleagues and grow up. We are in a hated profession.
10:47 sounds like the one playing victim.
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