Pre-OCI Reminder
This is one of my first substantive posts, but I feel it is necessary to say a few things about this. It is that time again, and a lot of 2Ls are at least a bit stressed out, myself included. Let's keep a few things in mind:
1. Keep arrogance to a minimum. Maybe not everyone will have as many callbacks as you, and not everyone will feel as confident about their screening interviews. Limiting these conversations with close friends seems credited.
2. Can we not talk about grades and whether doing a screening interview with grade-sensitive firms is a good idea? No one really wants to hear it, and we have our schedules already.
3. If you have advice to give (on interview techniques, firms, suits, life, etc.), think about whether it is welcome in the mind of the person receiving it. How you present advice, and to whom you present it, can really make a difference as to how it is perceived.
These are the top three things that come to my mind, but feel free to add.
1. Keep arrogance to a minimum. Maybe not everyone will have as many callbacks as you, and not everyone will feel as confident about their screening interviews. Limiting these conversations with close friends seems credited.
2. Can we not talk about grades and whether doing a screening interview with grade-sensitive firms is a good idea? No one really wants to hear it, and we have our schedules already.
3. If you have advice to give (on interview techniques, firms, suits, life, etc.), think about whether it is welcome in the mind of the person receiving it. How you present advice, and to whom you present it, can really make a difference as to how it is perceived.
These are the top three things that come to my mind, but feel free to add.
posted by AmyLiz at 11:12 AM
30 Comments:
Here is one "don't" that I saw during OCI: DO NOT read (or respond to!!!) callback invite emails in class. It is practically as bad as talking to the WSGR recruiter about your callback while in Zeb. Everyone behind you will forever think of you as the biggest douche in history.
This applies to a variety of things people behind you can see on your laptop screen, but this is the most relevant for the time-being.
One time in class, someone was talking shit about me on gchat with the person sitting in front of me. That was funny.
"If you have advice to give (on interview techniques, firms, suits, life, etc.), think about whether it is welcome in the mind of the person receiving it."
Back atcha.
Jeez, chill out McWho. In this economy I wouldn't delay responding to a callback because you're worried some nosy person behind you is eavesdropping on your email.
What's next? "Don't be a douche and open that evite in class because maybe the person behind you wasn't invited to the party!!"
Well the, 2:09, it's a good thing employers keep track of the amount of time it takes someone to respond to a callback offer. It is the first thing on their callback evaluation, in fact. You will certainly do well in this profession; particularly the interpersonal part.
In the interest of spurring economic growth, I propose a moratorium on all sentences that begin "In this economy . . ."
This thread is stupid. Half of you need to grow some balls and stop getting offended when your peers succeed. The other half needs to be just be courteous and not douchey. The advice in this post only matters to people whose parents failed to raise them with basic manners.
That could be used to describe an appreciable number of people who enter a top 10 law school. In case you haven't taken the time to look around you, people don't succeed in academics because of their thriving social skills.
ugh.
I don't think talking with your friends about callbacks you got is being arrogant. Is it too much to be excited? Yes, others may not get callbacks, but that doesn't mean they should get all offended by your success.
There is definitely a huge difference between "Well I got 7 callbacks, and you know, it is just so hard to choose which firm I want since I have so many offers." and "A firm gave me a callback so I'm a little relieved."
We should all be supportive and happy for each other. Not whining and being jealous little bitches.
@McWho and 1:17, how about not creeping on other people's screens and getting offended at what you find? it's not like the font is 48-point and scrolling across the screen or something; you're talking about lines of 12-point font on someone's computer screen 2 feet in front of you. mind your own business!
2:19 PM-
If you think that the time it takes you to respond to emails / correspondence is insignificant to law firms, you are a little misguided.
2Ls cannot read their e-mail in class on the off chance that someone with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old is sitting behind them?
"2:19 PM-
If you think that the time it takes you to respond to emails / correspondence is insignificant to law firms, you are a little misguided."
A couple things:
1. You seem to take my comment to mean that you can sit on your ass and respond whenever; it didn't. You simply don't have to respond immediately.
2. It doesn't matter to the law firm. It may matter to the individual there, but I highly doubt they really care. We make a number of offers for callbacks and give timelines within which to respond. We realize that you have other things going on in your life. Whether you respond within five minutes from receiving it, or five minutes before the deadline doesn't matter.
The best advice for 2l's reading this post is to not behave like any of the commenters on this post. I see a great deal of bitchy, cliquey, anxious advice from people who seem more interested in proving a point or in spreading their own misery around (*cough* McWho) than they are in being helpful and supportive to their friends and peers. Ignore the stress-mongers.
Instead, be your relaxed, normal self as best as possible. Be humble yet confident. Do not say anything negative in an interview, even about the weather. Smile. That about sums up what I want to see in an interviewee.
A few other random thoughts:
This is a small one, but I am one of the people who thinks pin striped suits on young men are off-putting. They suggest much more authority than you have at this point in your careers.
Don't lie. Not even a little bitty one (unless maybe it is a lie about your opinion regarding the weather - see above).
Say thank you for whatever goodies/crap a firm gives you, even if you have no use or desire for anohet law firm coffee mug, flash drive, fuzzy blanket, or brochure.
Above all, let your life social experience be your guide. If you totally lack social skills faking it isn't going to help; the firm will find out soon enough ("it's snuggle time!! . . . ask around if you don't know that story) so there is no point in fooling them now. If, however, you are a good person with a good head and heart, the firm will also find out on its own. In both cases, your short run behavior will be checked by a long run evaluation process. Be who you are.
Good luck, eceryone, and see you at Hotel Durant. Th weather should be fantastic!
anon 7:11 is titmfcr, to borrow xoxo parlance.
i just want one offer. and it doesn't even have to pay market if the hours and the work are bearable.
good luck to all. let's get our best selves out and see where it takes us. no stress. no rat race.
peace out.
I'm an alum in big law and have been through two seasons of recruiting now. I found two points of advice on here strange: (1) not responding to call-back invites in class. Huh? Why? Promptness is a good quality. If you're worried about d-baggery, the d-bag is the one who's reading over your shoulder. (2) despite comment (1), whether you respond in 5 minutes or 24 hours doesn't make any difference. (Beyond 24 hours might be offensive.) When you get that call-back it means that there was some mystical combination of qualities that added up to a call-back. Unless you are all HH's with an Ivy undergrad or a Rhodes scholar/Olympic athlete, the law firm is still taking a risk in bringing you in at all, and likely has no opinion about you other than that you made the first cut.
I can't emphasize enough how flattery works. If you know what the firm does and can fake your way through being interested in that, you're half way there. For instance, I work in an office that specializes in a certain field of transactional work. Anyone who expresses interest in our "international litigation" practice is automatically dinged.
Like I say, I've only been through this twice from the other side, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Maybe I am naive, but are people really looking over my shoulder seeing what I am doing during class? I wouldn't even think about doing that - it is a bit creepy unless it is a friend...
Yeah way to spread your own misery around, McWho, you miserable bastard.
(McWho is not a student.)
Couple of things:
Boaltie camraderie never has been and never will be at its highest point during OCIP, while anxiety probably is, and this post will not change that. The good news is that no one dies from not getting a callback and LRAP is a GREAT consolation prize.
The MOST important thing is to make sure that you only interview with firms that are actually giving (multiple) offers. To determine this you need to dig a little bit.
Once you get past the true superstars in you class, it is really tough to gauge what firms want or to give a good primer on interview techniques. It all depends.
I know someone who got multiple interviews and no offers and someone who only got 1 callback from a top firm that everyone wanted and they salivated over him and begged him to come (this is not intended to sound sexual). I've seen both.
Loopy things happen. I got a callback and a rejection letter from the same firm. Some firms do a second and third round of callbacks really late.
You will likely check N&B and ATL five times a day during OCIP. It is equally never-racking and helpful, actually.
Peaking at laptop screens is a guilty pleasure of mine and several others. Sorry guy sending wife/girlfriend/mistress/whoever-that-was info on the day-after pill (this was a particularly juicy email), I simply could not help myself. If you are reading, fill me in on what you guys decided to do.
I agree with the alum's comment about faking it until you make it -I had no interest in biglaw, but I was very interested in the downpayment on a new car, some new clothes, and a trip to Europe. Cha and ching.
The 3L's at hotel durant will look particularly sad.
No matter what happens, it is not the end of the world. One thing I noticed from my summer is that firms hire laterals from government and midsize firms more than you would think. Also, the percentage of those who get offers that will still be working at their firms in five years is pretty
low, and gets lower as the years go on.
Hope this was helpful. Again the key take-away is that that we are reading your emails, gchat, and facebook...please make it interesting.
Good luck 2Ls.
im an '08 alum. i've seen people in the top of the class not get a job b/c they were douchey/weird and ppl at the botton of the class get the job they dreamed of.
one last thought: my happiest friends are in the gov't sector. they make a LOT less than what any kid at boalt can make, but from what i've heard/seen, they are the happiest. just my 2 cents. good luck -- every single time we go out, there is an OBVIOUS difference between the rich ones and happy ones. i'm one of the "rich" ones, but i'd rather be happy, in retrospect.
good luck boalties.
"spreading their own misery around (*cough* McWho)"
Yes, his miserable life as a graduate who currently works at a firm. Spread it all over OCI please. We could all use some of that misery over the next couple of weeks!
on the replying to callback offer:
I'm an '06 grad. At my firm, this is not listed on the interview schedule for the candidate. I don't see why it would be.
Proper etiquette is simple: reply promptly. The recruiters are busy people. They will not notice whether they get an instantaneously reply or a replay w/in 24 hrs. Don't wait a week. that's douchey. Use good judgment.
OCIP is not that different than the rest of life. Don't abandon the general rules that got you this far.
I think the bigger issue will be (and this is premature at this point), but if you get an offer and know that you don't like the firm, then let them know promptly. You may open up a spot for another Boaltie in your place.
Good luck and don't forget to breathe (or smile)
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am someone who had a miserable OCI experience (no offers...) and would still say respond to a callback offer ASAP even if you are in class.
That being said, I did not think the person who responded to a callback request via the phone in the student center was being a jerk. I thought they were being smart.
Respond ASAP but be polite. Kudos to that person I am talking about for apologizing after the call. I did respond to a callback request in class but I was also polite about it. Namely, I quickly wrote the response and minimized the chances that someone else could think I was gloating/see my laptop and feel bad.
Responding promptly becomes important if you have a lot of callbacks already scheduled. If you wait too long you are taking a risk that the firm has already filled up the slots that would work for your city/interview schedule.
And don't do 2 callbacks on the same day. That is one of the most miserable experiences ever.
There is a certain amount of joy watching one's classmates marching off to get boring jobs that have incredibly long hours and involve working to help huge corporations, while being able to say, not me old chap, not me.
Let me explain to you how this works. You see, the corporations finance OCIP. And then CDO goes out and the corporations sit there in their, in in their corporation buildings and, and and see that's, they're all corporationy, and they make money. Mm hmm...
Can we please not schedule callbacks on cell phones in the student lounge? Thanks kids.
Personally, I think that's going too far. I totally agree with not rubbing your success in other student's faces. But sometimes you need to handle business. I'm guessing most of us came to law school with the intent of getting a job. And now we aren't supposed to pursue that goal in front of other students?
Hi
Tks very much for post:
I like it and hope that you continue posting.
Let me show other source that may be good for community.
Source: Interview techniques
Best rgs
David
Post a Comment
<< Home