Week 1 LRW/Civ Pro Lesson to 1Ls
You will eventually learn the precise contours of Rule 11 and its FRAP equivalent. But for now, try and avoid stuff like this. Also, I'm not an appellate lawyer by any stretch of the imagination, but if you are trying to get the Supreme Court to reverse Rule 11 sanctions against you, serving the UN High Commissioner on Human Rights will tend to prove that you are deranged and completely incapable of recognizing objective truth if it slapped you in the face. Just a practice pointer.
posted by Armen Adzhemyan at 2:11 PM
21 Comments:
Don't mean to hijack the post, but
Altsh@ler Berzon LLP is asking for transcripts/grades BEFORE it will schedule OCIP interviews. They claim that they have a "waitlist" of available interview slots. I don't know if this is a mistake (from a recruiting attorney who doesn't know Boalt's OCIP policy), or an attempt to end-run the policy.
Here's the e-mail:
"You are receiving this email because you are on the waitlist to
interview with Altsh@ler Berzon LLP on Thursday, 8/26. There is a
chance that we will be able to conduct shortened interviews with a few people from the waitlist during breaks while we are on campus. If you would like to be considered, please send your transcript or list of classes and grades to me by tomorrow at noon. Please also let me know what your availability is next Thursday."
Thoughts?
OK, I answered your question in the other thread. Now you're just spamming.
I don't know what Armen's answer is, but I doubt the OCI policy extends to unscheduled interviews that they go out of their way to fit in. If you were scheduled for a regular interview, that would be one thing. However, as an interviewee that is being fitted into a non-OCI sponsored interview, I don't see how CDO policy applies.
Sorry, Armen. Hadn't realized anyone answered, and I wasn't sure how much visibility the July OCIP post had. So I reposted in the most recent post. My mind's not on Orly Taitz.
That's to be commended. And in general, no one cares about off-topic comments. It's just annoying when people post on multiple threads. That's all. Anyway, my suggestion there was to forward this to TG in career services. My hunch is this is not the first time that this has come up.
If you bid on a firm, but don't get an interview slot with them, they get your Resume. I got some interviews that way last semester.
This leads me to believe that it is not a violation to send them your transcript either, because you are allowed to list your grades on your resume anyways.
Bo!es S!hiller did this last year. They had a tiny number of interview slots, but used the OCI process to harvest resumes.
Plus, do you really want to work for Altsh@ler Berzon anyways. You might think you get to represent the little guy against giant companies. In reality, you spend a lot of your time helping unions crush a little guy they violated a duty towards.
Crushing the little guy is bad enough, but smelling your own farts while doing so is way worse.
8:03, are you sure? When I did OCI in 2008 I got an email from Terry saying to pull take my grades off my resume (he must have seen it when I uploaded it). But whatever. I don't think this matters much. I have you have great grades, send them on and keep mum to the CDO. If you have not so great grades, refuse to send them and cite the policy. I know that advice is probably a bit unethical, but I bet that's what most Boalties would do.
I'm also wondering if anyone is going to apply to work for this crazy birther lady? It would be a terrifying experience, but at the end of the summer you could write a book, and the book would probably generate more economic stability than a summer associate gig right now.
Why are you people putting your grades on your resume? They get your transcript anyway. Resumes aren't for grades; they're for experience. If I see any of those at OCI, I'll ding them.
People put grades on resumes for the benefit of firms that they unsuccessfully bid on. Those firms will see the resume, but won't see the applicant's transcript. If you have good grades, why wouldn't you put them on the resume for that purpose?
Because you can submit a transcript with your resume. It looks arrogant. I'm simply telling you from an interviewer's perspective.
11:37 here again. Last year an an applicant was unable to submit a transcript with his or her resume. I guess if it's different this year, I see your point.
11:37, I don't quite follow. These are firms that you did not get a winning bid with (who get your resume anyway if the process has not changed), but you resubmit (?) your resume with grades on it? How? The typical thing to do in those situations was to hand carry your application packet to the firm, state your interest, explain you did not get a bid, and ask that they consider your resume and transcripts for any possible open slots or a call back.
I just don't understand how the grades on a resume fits in. It's terrible off-putting. And it also sounds like you're undermining your fellow classmates who did get a winning bid, but had to wait until the interview to show the transcript. It's really unsavory and sends the wrong impression of how you would approach stressful situations on the job.
At the risk of opening a can of worms, did some transfer start this crap?
When I was a 2L a couple years back, someone in the CDO told me to put my H and HH grades on my resume. So I did. It was really awkward at the callback when the head trial partner asked me why I was trying to conceal my P grades from them.
Armen,
You don't resubmit your resume. You just submit a resume with grades on it to every firm. Or you submit a resume with grades on it to firms you did not bid high on. This assumes you got good grades.
CDO is totally ok with this. I checked with them last year, and they suggested that I do this. I hadn't even thought of it myself.
I don't get how you are undermining anyone else. Everyone who submitted a winning bid will get an interview, and the firm will see their grades. I also don't see how it's all that different from just giving your packet (with transcript) to the firm later on.
I guess it offends your sensibilities for some reason, but I got around 5 extra interviews this way, and all but one translated into a callback.
I am interested in hearing why you think it is off-putting to put your grades on your resume. In my view, a resume is a tool to get a job, and firms care about grades.
As an alum who participates in recruiting at my firm, I would ding a resume that had grade on it. To me it seems tacky. Your grades go on your transcript, which I will also see. Frankly, I don't even like seeing your AmJurs on your resume--again, that goes on your transcript. Other academic awards fine, but to me that would be like having "A+" in the undergrad section of the resume. It's just not done; that's why you have an opportunity to put summa or cum laude or whatever. Plus, for non-Boalt people, our grades don't make sense, so seeing them on the resume is going to give them more opportunities to be confused.
And for the record, none of the call backs I did last year were with candidates who had grades on their resumes. If you don't get a slot, send the recruiting contact an email with your resume and transcript and express your interest. I think that is far more appropriate than this bizarre confluence of resume and transcript.
I am also an alum who participates in recruiting at my firm. I would ding any resume that did not have grades on it. To me, it seems like you are trying to waste my time. I don't want to have to read two pieces of paper to get the information I need.
And for the record, all of the callbacks I did last year were with candidates who had grades on their resumes. I think that it is really bizarre to not realize that I am interested in your grades and don't want to do a Kabuki dance to figure out what your qualifications are.
Yeah, I'm sorry 4:25, but you're treating grades like some kind of weird Easter eggs that you won't value unless you have to work to find them. Law firms care about law school grades. Resumes are meant to highlight an applicants qualifications for a job. Get over it.
A well-qualified 2L probably has about 3-5 high grades to show to on-campus interviewers. I feel like they'd be doing you a favor by saving you the trouble of dealing with separate piece of paper to communicate such a small-but-crucial bit of information.
2:13, really? You're telling a recruiter how he should feel about the resumes he evaluates?
It isn't much "work" to "find" a student's grades. That's why firms ask for transcripts. And they're all on there. 2Ls have had like 8-10 of them. It's not like you have to go digging through some haystack to check out someone's grades, it's pretty straightforward.
When I see a resume where the student has taken up precious space to brag about grades that I'm just going to see on their transcript anyway, it makes me think they're (a) prouder of their grades than they really should be, and (b) not interesting or accomplished enough to fill up a single page without duplicative fluff.
Nice of the junior associates to come on here and confuse the 2Ls. Maybe the lesson is to avoid firms that send associates who would reject someone for including or not including a good grade on a resume.
It doesn't work for everyone, but I know I got a couple of extra interviews last year by including a book award on my resume. As someone noted above, firms won't see your grades if you don't win a bid, and showing up to the hospitality suite with your transcript might not work if they've filled the open slots already.
I agree with the comment above. The choice between putting on your resume "amjur" or "animal law society" is not (or at least should not be) difficult to make.
Post a Comment
<< Home