Wednesday, October 13, 2010

Live Blogging the Moral Character Lunch

Hey All --

So, having lost my various other forums I will be using Nuts & Boalts to restart my liveblogging of events that I feel obliged to go to that tend to be a huge waste of time. Things are just getting started here, so grab your Gregoire (mmm, skirt steak) and let's get going.

12:38: who are all of these people? Seriously. I like dont' recognize half of the people here. Are 1Ls here b/c they're special? Did we take a bunch of new people?
12:38: Jared Fish wants us to vote. Oh, Lauren Dickey does too. I love her!
12:39: Jared REALLY wants us to vote
12:40: pretty decent showing. Starting to recognize people. Oh, there's M*ndi, she looks really excited about this ...
12:46: there is an undergrad sitting two seats down from me ... he just said, "This isn't going to be so bad, right?" He is 1) wrong 2) proving why undergrads are basically just bigger 8 year olds
12:48: Ann*k is getting things started. It's amazing for her that we're 3Ls. It is terrifying to me.
12:48: I should have at least 2 handouts, I have none
12:49: Joel has them, but is really annoying. Cal Bar Exam: Bus Ass; CP (Fed and Cal); Com. Prop; Ks; Con Law; Crim/Pro; Evidence (Fed/Cal); Pro Resp.; Prop; Remedies; Torts; Wills and Trusts; FML. FOR NY, add Family Law, nix others.
12:50: We have to do something about exit counseling if(!) you have student loans. Also, if you aren't taking NY or Cal, this will be useless(ish) to you
12:51: FOr CAL three steps: 1) register as 1L; 2) moral character; 3) apply for the bar. THE BAR IS NOT FORGIVING. If you don't do these in that order then you DO NOT GET TO TAKE THE BAR.
12:52: For NY: You don't have to reg as a 1L. Instead, you apply for bar, then moral character, then register. Lawyers are SO annoying
12:53: BARBRI: B/c of construction, haven't been barbri here lately. But, we have now given them the opportunity to do it here -- and is VERY likely that if you take CA you will have classes here at Boalt.
12:54: MPRE: There is a Ste*le review Wednesday at 5:30 -- not sure which Wednesday, maybe come every Wednesday until you get it right.
12:55: the really want us to take the moral thing soon. She could not be talking quieter
12:56: sounds like we should just go to the website ( She says that this may take a lot longer to fill out than others. I assume she's talking about Joel. You need residences for the last 8 years, employment since age 8 (not just legal, but any employment more than 6 months). Also if you have other licenses, are you involved in litigation (like, not as a representative), 5 personal refernces -- people who know but aren't related to you, and one must be an atty; crim convictions and notwithstanding penal code 1203.4 dismissal you still have to put it down.
1:00: ugh, I'm seriously bored. And people are now asking questions... Why are people this year so question happy?
1:01: small claims court litigation counts (J.)
1:02: note, employment covers babysitting, adult sitting, any other kind of sitting
1:03: On the bright side, only 50-60 people don't pass each year in CA
1:04: This is turning into one of those things where everyone is asking questions that are only relevant to themselves. This is more painful then BizAss
1:07: nice, now we're talking about drug use.
1:09: people have started leaving. I want to be people.
1:10: Chuckles is SO happy he flew back from Europe for this.
1:10: If you don't know which bar you're going to take: you should start figuring this out.
1:12: negative determination is valid for 2 years
1:12: this thing costs 450 dollars to process! WHAT?! Joel is going to have to have to sell his other kidney.
1:13: Also, if you registered for the CA bar when you were a 1L -- like they told us we had to -- and you don't end up taking the CA bar you don't get a refund. "Oh, here CA, take my $180 donation to the bar association"
1:15: The attorney personal reference can be someone you worked for .
1:16: I'm starting to think that this is just some sort of overblown Q&A session -- and I'm freaking out.
1:17: I really wish this lady would talk closer to the mic. Her hair doesn't not look like Antoine Dodson's hair .... hide your kids?
1:19: We're talking about appeals now. Seems like the general appeals process in most settings.
1:20: Great, all my friends just left and now I am the only person in the back row. Thanks guys. That was awesome.
1:24: So, we just found out that we didn't need to register as 1Ls
1:24: TRANSFERS: If you registered as a 1L you will need to go re-register b/c you put in your old school.
1:25: HIRSHEN: If there is something that you are going to report (e.g., past conviction) you need to let the school know AND put it on your report. It needs to be in both places! Very important. This isn't a school requirement it is a bar requirement. Also, if you haven't heard back from the moral character folks by the time the bar comes, you can still sit you just can't get sworn in until you have got the moral stuff back. She also really wants us to do it over xmas. I'm positive I will not be filling out that paperwork during my 5 weeks in Argentina and Brazil.


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Blogger JohnSteele said...

John Steele here. The MPRE talk is on the 27th, at 5:30 pm, in Booth Hall. It'll last 2.5 hours, with a short break in the middle. If you email me directly at john dot steele - at - johnsteelelaw dot com, I will email you my outline this coming Friday. On the night of the lecture, you might want to grab an early dinner that night. Finally, there is no substitute for doing sample MPRE multiple choice questions with a rules book handy. Finally, it's possible, if not a foregone conclusion, that the 28th will be the second night of the World Series in San Francisco -- notwithstanding the pitiable envy and resentment of the founder of this blog. So the lecture will be recorded and put up somewhere on b-space.

10/13/2010 1:10 PM  
Blogger Armen said...


10/13/2010 1:13 PM  
Anonymous William said...

"So, what if you worked for McDonalds for six months five days and your last name begins with an M and you transferred from another school and you tried to enter information into the system about your default judgment and my last name is changed, what should I do?

...I'm asking for a friend"

10/13/2010 1:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah this got painful because of people asking individualized questions... I RAN when H*rshen said we could

10/13/2010 1:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey guys, I wasn't at the lunch, but I was wondering if you could answer a question for me:

I used to live in Canada. In my county, marijuana was decriminalized, but it was still illegal according to the national government. (Canada has a complicated federal system, but I assume you fully understand it and will be able to help me out.) So anyway, I used to work for a florist as a delivery driver. One day, I smoked a "J" and went on some delivery runs. According to local law, I was not intoxicated; according to national law, I was. Anyway, I got in an accident that resulted in some property damage. The owner of the other car sued me, claiming that I was driving while intoxicated (in my state, we have "statutory negligence" which can be triggered by DWI). I defended saying that according to local law, I was fine. However, the plaintiffs "removed" to national court, which entered a judgment against me. I've filed the Canadian equivalent of a petition for cert. to our highest court. My question really involves two parts:

1) Do I have to disclose this on my application for moral character?

2) Will this judgment against me result my application being appealed?

3) What are my chances on appeal?

10/13/2010 1:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Canadian, eh? Je ne suis pas votre avocat. Bonne chance, mon ami!

10/13/2010 2:01 PM  
Blogger Petch said...

Dear Canada:

1. You have to disclose.
2. It may.
3. I'm not touching this one.

10/13/2010 2:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what did they say about drugs between 1:07 and 1:09 pm? inquiring minds want to know

10/13/2010 2:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most entertaining N&B post in awhile. Kudos, Petch.

10/13/2010 2:48 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

I don't think we've had a live blog since my (epic) rundown of the day the student team came from WAY behind to beat the professor team at the APALSA trivia championship. (DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES?!) I am glad to see the format return in style.

10/13/2010 2:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey JohnSteele, let's say SOMEONE managed to graduate law school and take the California bar exam without ever taking the MPRE, and that person is registered for the November 6th test. Could that person sit in on your lecture and/or view it online, even though he is no longer a student?

10/13/2010 2:55 PM  
Blogger JohnSteele said...

2:55, is that person a Boalt alum? why not email me directly so we can talk.

10/13/2010 3:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:41: the gist of it is that if you smoke weed, no one cares. your personal references aren't going to be asked to vouch that you don't smoke weed. there's a question on the application about whether or not you're addicted, but unless you are, no one cares. even if you are, i bet it would be really easy to lie.

10/13/2010 8:25 PM  
Anonymous Small Claims 100% said...

I am the small claims law.

10/13/2010 9:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I want more Peter live blogs. Can we have live blogs of Biz Ass?

10/13/2010 9:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A live blog of BizAss would be awesome.

10/14/2010 1:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thanks, 8:25. time to spark a doob

10/14/2010 9:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of doobs, can someone actually explain what happens if Prop 19 passes. Specifically, will there be a stay until the preemption issue is decided?

Moreover, I am a huge supporter of this, but with my extremely limited knowledge of preemption, how the hell does this not get preempted?

10/14/2010 3:15 PM  
Blogger Armen said...

I don't know what you mean by preemption, but how does eliminating a state crime from state books create any preemption issue?

Other parts of prop. 19, if they for example attempt to collect revenue for local governments, etc., may have preemption problems. But simply not having an analog state offense to a federal criminal statute is pretty common. Just ask any pirate (I'm assuming there are no California laws against piracy, though I could be wrong about this).

10/14/2010 3:25 PM  
Blogger Patrick said...

Armen's point is a good one, and I wish people would make it more loudly and more often.

If federal law makes it illegal to smoke pot, but state law doesn't, then it is still illegal to smoke pot.

What will be interesting, though, is watching how the fed/state power issues play out. Will congress try, say, withholding funds unless local cops who discover weed during a traffic stop call federal prosecutors? (I.e., is this United States v. Printz, or South Dakota v. Dole? Anyone?) Will cops voluntarily do so if they happen to be having a bad day? If the detainee isn't white?

Or, will the federal government do the sensible thing and back off from what (in my opinion) should always have been the province of local police power? I think we all know what the answer will be for the next two years, but after that, it feels like anyone’s guess.

10/14/2010 3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey when do we take the MPRE? As a 2L or Fall of 3L?

10/17/2010 10:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope those aren't the only two options.

10/17/2010 11:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I took the MPRE this August before starting 3L year. There were people in the line to register who had just finished taking the bar exam. I don't know the rules, but that suggests there's some flexibility.

10/18/2010 12:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honestly, Character and Fitness in California is pretty easy. Sure you need to gather tons of information to complete the application, but California doesn't seem too hard on people. Another state I recently applied to was WAY more difficult (I literally would be communicating with my character and fitness processor daily about minute details). My advice: Don't stress, but remember DISCLOSE DISCLOSE DISCLOSE. And if your processor calls you, try to respond to them promptly and do whatever they need as promptly as possible. Also, the earlier you fill out the application during your 3L year the better. You don't want to pass the bar and the MPRE and still be waiting on Character and Fitness. I've seen that happen, and firms aren't too happy about it.

10/19/2010 11:18 AM  

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