"My Advice Is to do What Your Parents Did; Get a Job, Sir!"
A while back a person asked in the comments for advice and a thread for new or starting associates. As a new associate myself I’m not sure I can provide the advice but I can provide the thread.
. . . well, without venturing so far as to call it “advice,” I do have some suggestions that have helped me greatly during my clerkship and in the two short months I have been a litigation associate:
. . . well, without venturing so far as to call it “advice,” I do have some suggestions that have helped me greatly during my clerkship and in the two short months I have been a litigation associate:
- Figure out a way to organize your email. For me, this is a system of folders and outlook rules. At the end of each day I empty my inbox and sent mail into these folders so that I start each day fresh. This also helps me review issues that came up during the day so nothing slips through the cracks. It may be different for you, but this little ritual has helped me to keep on top of things.
- Figure out a way to organize your tasks and assignments. For me, this is a running “task list” document that I keep on my desktop. Its columns are: task, due date, client, and status. I also update this at the end of each day, which helps me to stay on top of things.
- Figure out a way to organize your timekeeping. For me, this is combination of a downloadable stopwatch and a yellow sticky that sits next to my computer. There are about as many systems for keeping time as there are lawyers in the world so find what works for you, but whatever you do, don’t let timekeeping get away from you.
- If you are doing document review online, take some time to really learn how the platform works and how to use all of its features. This is another big time saver.
- Ask as many questions as occur to you, even if they feel (or are) dumb. Many of them will turn out to be not very dumb at all but that's not what matters. What matters is that you don’t know something, and you need to. So you gotta’ ask.
- All of the standard rules for politeness and professionalism that you received for OCIP and for your summer gigs apply to your job as well, but if at this point you need to read this bullet to realize that you probably are doomed.
- ‘Fess up to your mistakes immediately. I’ve made a few and the two lessons they consistently teach me are (1) pretty much every mistake you could possibly make has been made many times before, and (2) most things can be fixed if addressed quickly by people who know how.
- Write lots of stuff down. Get in the habit of being a jotter, and a saver of notes. Stick your jottings in a folder near your desk and ignore them until later when you suddenly find you urgenly need them. Which you will.
- Pay attention to the differences between being a law student and being a lawyer. My experience as the former has given minimal guidance in many important aspects of the latter. In a lot of ways I feel like I am starting all over again. It seems to me that, like the first semester of law school, now is the time to give it one hundred percent.
posted by Patrick Bageant at 10:54 PM
30 Comments:
This comment depends heavily on your own preference (some people, oddly, really enjoy working long hours):
If you are at a big firm, and you are worried about it taking over your life, you need to set boundaries EARLY. This means talking with the associates/partners above you, and telling them what is going on in your life, and when you won't be available. Don't be afraid to do it. And if they respond with something like "Oh, right, your honeymoon... can you delay that? We really need you here for doc review," maybe you should start looking for another place to work (again, if you aren't into the whole working every hour of every day thing).
time management is a skill that, in my experience, even the best lawyers are constantly working on, and refining, and tinkering. try "getting things done," try using systems that other lawyers use, try using the tasks function on Outlook, try just about anything. don't be afraid to junk a system if it's not working.
This is a great thread, thanks Patrick.
I will add my two cents too.
1) Give constant updates. As a first year, I've found that not a whole lot is expected of me, but people still want things done. If a project that would take a fifth year 30 minutes is taking you all day, that is OK, but let the partner know. These people are used to 1000 emails a day, and they won't mind one more coming at 7PM from you updating them on the daily status of your project.
2) Maintain your health! Usually this involves getting into a regular gym/jogging routine. If you find yourself, like me, often desperately needing a beer at the end of a long day of doc review, you're not likely to get to the gym after work. Go in the morning or go at lunch. Whatever you do, go. Don't kid yourself about appearance, it matters, and so does your health.
If you're at a big firm:
1) Be meek and eager.
2) Always remember the importance of marketing yourself upward in the firm. It's way easier to spend your time griping with your classmates, of course. But even if you're not in it for the long haul, you still have to play the game. Seems like obvious advice, but I've seen so many people fail to take it.
3) Find a senior associate who will champion you, and start thinking of ways to make their life easier. Think a step or two ahead. But also connect with them on a friendly, social level. They'll want to pick people they like for their teams. Again, obvious advice.
4) Hardest advice: find a way to enjoy the slow times. Don't panic if you go a while without lots of work to do. If you can enjoy it while it lasts, you'll be a happier person.
5) Recognize that even if people tell you that assignments have no fixed due date, and to finish them when you can, everyone always wants to get things sooner. Work quickly.
6) For litigators: no one expects you to be a great motion-writer in your first few months. But don't make mistakes on the things that ARE within your control. In other words, don't have Bluebooking errors.
7) Finally, a more general piece of advice that served me well: remember that, above all, you're being paid to exercise judgment. This comes up a lot in first year litigation wild goose chase research assignments. You may, as I did, run around in circles for a day or two trying to find the right answer. There may not be one. (Mostly because many of the pre-trial litigation issues that you'll be asked to research are the subject of very few judicial opinions.) However, even if you don't find the clearly applicable case, you can still say, "I have researched this issue, and in my judgment, it appears that ___." This formulation goes a LONG way, both in making your superiors happy, and in setting you apart as a junior associate.
Take ownership - of everything you touch. That was the first thing my partner mentor ever said to me and I can't emphasize this enough. Take ownership of every project you have. Respond to emails quickly. Agree to all follow up. Ask to take more responsibility - when you do what appears to be a one-off project, figure out how it fits into the matter and what value you can add above and beyond the basic task, and offer to expand your presence on that matter. Don't be pushy about it - but volunteer. Take ownership of your career - figure out what teams you want to work for and the best way you can do that. If it means taking a few low level/not glamorous projects to prove yourself, do it and own those projects. They can expand from "helping out on doc review" (not a task everyone would volunteer for) to, within the year, going to trial across the country. Walk the fine line between meek and confidant.
Don't step on your fellow junior associates while taking ownership. Don't be that guy at Kasowitz that thought he was better than most senior associates and told everyone. But don't let fear of looking a little like a gunner or kiss-up dissuade you from genuinely trying to add value or make a senior associate/partner's life easier.
Be nice to everyone. Learn everyone's names (including staff). Say hi to them when you walk by. Be known as someone people want to be around - upbeat and friendly. When it comes to a lot of junior associate tasks (where quality might not be the issue), being "popular" in that manner helps you get staffed on matters in the first instance - it's who the senior associates want to be stuck with in a conference room late at night.
Also - be very friendly with the partner you're working for's assistant (and your own obviously). They really really know what they're doing and are way smarter than you in the way that matters when you first start, and can help you understand the partner and how to do your job better.
4th year associate's comments above are excellent and s/he has certainly been identified as partner material. Because it is such a small world, I would add that you should always be courteous to everyone, especially your client, but also the parties on the other side. You never know who who will work with/for some day. Another point is that if you are working in a firm, pro bono work is a good way to identify what kind of work you would like to do after you realize that you can't take working for a firm any longer.
This is such a tiny little thing, but I would advise to respond promptly to emails - even if just to say something as simple as "I have received this, and I can't turn to it just now, but my plan is to get to it by xx day." Respond even to emails that don't seem super important or time-sensitive.
I was at a big firm for two years before moving into government, and in both places I have had experiences with people who are super slow in responding or never respond at all, and I just think it demonstrates a sort of lack of respect for the person reaching out to you. It's easy to quickly respond when the person emailing is a more senior associate/ supervisor, but I think that being a quick responder to anyone is such a great habit. People really appreciate just getting a sense from you that you value them instead of leaving them hanging for hours or days at a time. I often get replies from people saying "Thank you so much for responding so quickly!" - even when my response is literally "I'm so sorry I'm tied up right now, but will turn to this as soon as I can." It sets a good tone and can help develop a positive reputation.
I know it's a silly little thing, but I think that little things can be so important to help yourself stand out. I know it drives me insane when I send an email with a question or with legal analysis or with an attached draft or whatever and then hear nothing back. So why do that to someone else?
Another fourth year biglaw associate here with some tips. The first couple months it's hard to make a big impression with your work product, so these two things make the biggest positive impression, in my opinion:
(1) Be enthuiastic, outgoing, and friendly. Even if you are not normally an enthuiastic person by nature, wing it. Partners and senior associates love nothing more than knowing you are 100 on board and excited.
(2) Be responsive. Send emails with updates daily/every couple of days to your senior. There is no such thing as emailing too much, in my opinion. Ask when people want things done or propose your own due date (i.e. "I have a deposition on Thursday so will shoot to get you this research memo by Wednesday COB) - and then update them if you find out you can't get it by then.
Most importantly, when someone asks you to do something via email, respond and tell them you will. Something as simple as "Will do." is enough! Nothing I hate more than asking for something and having radio silence from the associate. You don't have to do it right then, just tell me you know I've asked and you will do it.
2:00 pm, I don't mean to sound like a prick, but I genuinely can't tell if you're trolling or not. "Wing it?" WTF? If you're having a bad day, you're having a bad day. If you're the sarcastic, bitter type, people will adjust to the personality. No need to act like someone you're not. That's probably the easiest recipe for burning out, which is neither in your interest nor the firm's. If there are genuine issues that are bugging you, they should be raised.
The flip side of that is the work is demanding, difficult, and often times frustrating. Everyone knows it. Partners know it, senior associates know it, the midlevels REALLY know it, and the juniors eventually know it too. Nothing makes the suck worse than someone who spends more time complaining than actually getting any work done. You're paid the big bucks. You're a professional. So handle yourself accordingly when you spend weeks writing an amazing brief only to find out the case has settled.
So I would say the whole attitude question is much more nuanced. I don't think anyone should fake a smile, but at the same time you won't be breaking any news by complaining about working in big law.
2:00 pm here - not a troll, Armen!
I don't mean to say that you should walk around like some crazed-out loony all smiley faced, or change who you are at work. Be yourself, that's who they hired.
But a lot of the work first years get is drudgery, and being engaged in your work and enthuastic about the case (not necessarily the document review or what have you) speaks volumes. Yes, that means when you have doc review to do, you kind of wing it and pretend to be interested in the case as whole, as questions, and get involved, even if the task at hand is less than stellar. Would you disagree, Armen?
Sounds like we're on the same page.
As a first-year corporate associate, I think the prior posters have made some great points. In addition, I would propose to add a few additional thoughts:
First, although it naturally helps to cultivate good relationships with more senior attorneys, having a good relationship with the associates who are only a year or so ahead of you can be more valuable on a day-to-day basis because they have been in your shoes more recently and are much more likely to know where the gaps in your knowledge are. While asking questions is great, there are likely to be times where you do not even know which questions you should be asking. I am extremely grateful for the amount of help I've gotten from second-year associates in the short time that I've been at the firm.
Second, understand that big law firms are not always particularly conducive to coaching and mentoring young lawyers. You are likely to run across senior attorneys who may genuinely like you and want you to learn, but at the end of the day they cannot really afford to trust you because they will be judged primarily on tangible outcomes (i.e. did the deal get done efficiently and was the work product of high quality?). Some lawyers are better at managing this tension than others. If you run across someone who is not the most natural teacher, recognize that it is almost certainly not because they don't care about you or your development. It's a reflection of the real world constraints under which everyone has to operate in the context of big law. In terms of your own action items, I've found that it really helps to invest a lot of time in understanding the mechanics and underlying rationale of a deal. Even if you haven't been assigned an explicit task see if you can find any resources (whether at the firm or even in books or the internet) that will help you make sense of what's going on. To a large extent, you will need to be your own coach.
Lastly, and depending on your personality type this may be more or less of an issue, accept the fact that you are going to make some mistakes and, most importantly, be able to forgive yourself and move on. My first deal closed only a few weeks after I started. The staffing was very lean - the partner, a very senior associate (7+ years), and me (who found out I had passed the bar only days before closing). Moreover, it was a very high-profile transaction completed on a very aggressive timeline (with Thanksgiving thrown in the middle). Needless to say, things didn't always go as smoothly as they should have and most of the time this was due to my inexperience (though i-bank politics also reared its ugly head). My feelings vacillated between guilt (as I was creating more work for the senior associate than he deserved) and abject fear (as the senior associate, though well-meaning, could be quite harsh). I am certain that these feelings made me less effective than I could have been. Learning through failure can be difficult if you are in the habit of setting high expectations for yourself, as most people at Boalt are. Nevertheless, it's really essential to be able to forgive yourself, learn, and move forward even if your superiors are upset and you yourself feel that you don't deserve much clemency.
Best of luck to all.
Your lives sound miserable. Public interest is going to pay way worse, but it'll be worth it not to have to go through this amount of bullshit.
I'm glad to hear you're happy with your own choice, but everybody is different. For my part, I can tell you that my life isn't miserable. And yes, I'm self-aware enough to know the difference.
I'm seriously blown away by 8:29. What exactly doesn't apply to public interest? Having systems so you don't lose track of important deadlines / material? Not making careless errors in your work product? Having a positive attitude? Dealing with bull shit?
Am I wrong to read 8:29's comment as downright insulting to the public interest/sector lawyers who work their butts off in understaffed / underfunded environments doing God's work?
Armen - you are not wrong.
Haha, Armen's "blown away." I can't say exactly what the above-commenter was referencing, but Armen's concern-trolling about how it's "insulting" to public interest is unjustified.
Yeah, everyone --- public interest or not --- is going to work hard, have long hours, need to develop skills to manage their time.
The difference between us and you, however, is that when our bosses ask us to postpone our honeymoons for doc review [12/08/2011 - 8:39AM], we'll be doing it for a good cause (rather than to satisfy some high-paying corporate client). When we sacrifice our bodies and our health [12/08/2011 - 9:21AM], it'll be to help someone else's body and health rather than to bill bonus-worthy hours. And if I'm going to be "meek and eager" [12/08/11 - 9:47AM], it's because I respect my boss' experience and knowledge, not because I'm "marketing myself upward in the firm."
I think you all have been in nosebleed offices so long that you fail to recognize how douchey this all sounds to everyone else. I wouldn't ordinarily care, but so long as this remains the de facto "Boalt Blog," you make the rest of us look like assholes.
I was a 6th year & am now in house. Here are things that haven't come up.
Send emails with useful headers. The name of the case you are staffed on without anymore info is not help. Case: outline of memo on standing is helpful. Writing good headers will make you stand out, especially when the people you report to are very very busy.
Talk to the associates around you. If you get an assignment and you don't know where to start and didn't get direction from the person who gave you the assignment, ask the midlevel down the hall. They know what it's like to be a first year (ie that you have no clue what you are doing) and they will give you pointers. It will save you time and you'll learn who around you has the best info. Sometimes, this person can even be a junior partner. I knew one who basically seemed to know every federal circuit case ever, which was very useful at times.
Say yes to all assignments unless you really cannot do it. You will get a broad exposure to a lot of different tasks and people will want to work with you. You do not want to be known as the person that says no to everything. One of my favorite partners to work with did commercial litigation, including class action defense, which didn't interest me in the least. But I learned a lot working with him.
Be a good team member. Try to figure out what the rest of the team is doing so that you know how your piece will fit. Volunteer. Say please and thank you to everyone.
Realize that most everything you do you will not have done before and don't let it stress you out.
If someone assigns you work, don't send them a question every 10 minutes or even every hour. Make a list and then ask them when a good time to talk is.
Breathe. Get to know your colleagues. You'll get by and by the end of your first year, you'll (hopefully) have learned a lot.
Good luck!
12:11, you don't need any help in the 'looking like an asshole category.' The only people who could twist the above tips to new lawyers as some indictment of the private practice of law either a) has never practiced as a lawyer or b) is simply a self righteous asshat. (sorry for continuing to pay the troll toll but I couldn't resist).
I don't blame people like 12:11 for their insecurities. While their classmates get to live comfortable and ultimately debt free upper class lives, 12:11 will likely be volunteering or working for peanuts and be one act of congress away from have their debt cause wage garnishment and poverty for the rest of his life. I'd also probably be angry, bitter, and jealous in that position.
This was a great post before the trolls. To balance, maybe a non biglaw alumnus can provide advice.
I don't think 12:11 was trolling. I applaud her for keeping everyone else in check. Public interest FTW!
Also, I think it would be great if N&B alumni did a panel at school next semester. The topic could be: "Practical Advice to Lawyers in Their First Year After Graduation." Publishing your bios and seeing your body language will let everyone know how much weight to give your advice.
What say you?
I posted the first comment, and will give a bit of small firm perspective. I started at a big law firm, and left after a couple years for a small (6 person) firm in the burbs.
My advice for small firm folk is to believe in your instincts. You are not going to know anything about practicing law coming out of law school, but you are all smart enough to figure it out. I am by no means saying blindly follow whatever thought comes into your mind, but if you read an interrogatory and think, "shit, that could mean a number of things," object.
Going along those lines, in smaller bars (like Contra Costa), don't let experienced, older attorneys bully you. They will see you as a fresh face with a high bar number, and think that dropping incredibly douchey phrases like "I've been practicing for 30 years and have never had standing brought up in this context" will make you cave. A lot of things go on in small town courts that shouldn't, but are perpetuated because it is easy. Push back. Force them to make that argument to a judge, not you.
Also, it's fucking scary. Like, really scary. You can be responsible for the control of a case that could change your client's life, for better or worse. It is fucking scary. I still get nervous, and it keeps me up at nights before hearings or filing deadlines. It's okay to be nervous about stuff like that. It shows you care, and motivates you to do the best you can so you can look your client in the face, win or lose, and tell them you did everything you could.
That got a little too involved. Sorry. I still hate all you liberals.
That comment was a slam dunk. Truly masterful. Thanks a bunch 8:56! The thought of being in a small law firm is pretty scary, but it also sounds exciting.
8:56 again. I have a couple more thoughts about life in a small bar.
I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere above (with respect to navigating you way through big law), but it is doubly true in a small bar: your credibility and your reputation are your biggest assets. I practice with the same group of attorneys from the same firms every day. There are about four or five judges that I appear in front of, and am normally in front of two of them. I know all of them, and they know all of me. Most importantly, and obviously, they remember what I said last time, how I acted, how I treated people, and whether I was fair to everyone. Credibility is hard to gain and very easily lost. Stay away from the dark side.
On that same line, when you start a case against an attorney you've never worked with before, ask someone you know and trust what their opinion of the attorney is. There are a number of attorneys who are great people, people I'd love to have a beer with after court, but are lying, backstabbing, dickfaces in court. I was baffled by how unethical attorneys can be. Turns out, our profession's reputation is well deserved. The important thing is to know which people can be trusted, and which cannot. Get things in writing. All the time.
And even if you think the opposing counsel is the biggest asshole in the world, you need to be able to go into a hearing, fight like hell, then, once it's over, leave the courtroom, shake the other attorney's hand, and ask how their kids are doing. You may be thinking, "I want to stab you in the eyeballs with my pen," but, alas, you have to make nice. Why? Because a tremendous amount of business is generated in small bars by referrals from former opposing counsel. To that end, you don't want to go around pissing off all the attorney's you practice with (in addition to wanting to be able to have a good working relationship with them). This is something I still struggle with.
Finally, get to know your clients a little. Figure out how involved they want to be in cases, and keep them happy. Small firms live and die on cash flow, and when your client is pissed off, they may sit on their bill a bit before they pay it. Some clients will do whatever you suggest to them; some simply look to you to validate what they want to do; others want you to explain every single discovery request, stipulation, motion, or other pleading you draft. Even if you think you are too busy to do it, take the extra thirty minutes to make sure your client is happy, and understands what is going on, and it will be worth it.
Okay, I think I've exhausted my topics. I hope that wasn't too proselytize-y.
8:56, whether or not you're trying to, you make small-bar work sound enviably fun and stimulating. And I'm one of those weird big-firm associates who LIKES my job...
I wasn't trying to give that impression, but I really enjoy it. I think I also got pretty lucky in hooking up with a small firm full of good people. Looking around at some of the other shops in the area, I definitely fell down the right chimney (although they had me interview about five or six times to make sure it was a good fit both ways).
Here is a question for you more experienced associate types.
We all use gmail. (Or hotmail/yahoo for those who refuse to let go of the late '90s.) Do you add your gmail account to Outlook, or do you access it via the web browser interface? Outlook would be super convenient for me but I worry about the NSFW stuff that occasionally lands in my gmail account. I also don't want to blur any work/personal lines. But it really would be convenient to have it all in Outlook. Help!
Convenience MUST give way to prudence. There's a whole host of reasons why that is bad.
1) When merged with Outlook, you will have material on your firm laptop (physically) that may or may not comply with your firm's policies. Most company laptops these days are automatically imaged with whatever frequency. IF someone wanted to go through your personal stuff, they'd be able to.
2) If for whatever reason my emails are subject to a Litigation Hold Notice, then I want doc reviewers to go through my work emails, not my personal emails. Maybe you can say Inbox 1 is responsive but Inbox 2 isn't, though that's just far too much heartache that's easily avoidable.
3) I kind of like the web-based layout of gmail and gchat. Why would I want to give that up? Idle chit chat is the backbone of the internet.
4) I apply these principles to my iPhone as well. I access firm emails through the email program and gmail through the mobile gmail app.
Maybe I'm clinging on to the late-90s Seinfeld maxim that you can't have your separate worlds collide, but that's my view.
On the iPhone, the mobile g-mail app is a horrendous waste of space. I can't believe we haven't had an entire post on how awful that is yet.
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