Four and a Half Minutes Hate
I cannot stay quiet about this anymore. I dislike my Evidence class. What? you might ask. You dislike Evidence with Prof. Swift? No. I love Evidence with Prof. Swift. I dislike my *class*. Today, Friday morning, is exemplary. As of the class' start time at 10:00 AM, 24 of 95 students were in their seats, ready to participate and learn. For those keeping score, that is barely a quarter. Mind you, this is a class that had a waitlist of nearly a hundred students, all of whom wanted a chance to be in the class. And recall that the ABA requires attendance and a specific amount of class time for accreditation. And all this talk of the Honor Code and ranks got me to look at the Academic Rules. 1.07 governs here: "We expect every student to prepare fully for class and to participate actively in class discussion. For this purpose regular attendance and preparation of assignments are required."
People continued talking well past 10:00. Enough people showed up to start class at 10:04:30. Starting 4.5 minutes late would mean losing 7% of our class time if Prof. Swift did not keep the class over five minutes. Attendance and start times have better on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays it has been ridiculous. This is not the most extreme example, it's just the one I counted students for. Amazingly, the parade continued throughout the class. How does one show up fifteen minutes late for class? How do substantial numbers of people not show up at all (I would say that roughly 60-70 people show up for Friday Evidence)? Did they all forget where it is? Or do they simply lack respect for their fellow classmates, the professor, and the 100 or so people on the waitlist they're screwing over?
I understand not everyone is perfectly punctual. But the law is (compare, statute of limitations). This is law school. I have yet to work in a firm, but I expect (and hope) that meetings start on time. Judges start on time too. My judge this summer told us a hilarious, and overtly cautionary story, about punctuality. She had an attorney who kept missing his client's hearings. Finally, on the third missed hearing, she dispatched the federal marshals (it turned out he was in another courtroom acorss town), had the attorney put in handcuffs, placed in the back of the car, driven to the courthouse, and dragged up to her courtroom (still shackled). HIs client deserved his attorney's presence, and so did the judge, opposing counsel, and the rest of the court. According to the judge, the attorney never showed up late again in all her dealings with him.
I know it's an asshole thing to do -to sit in the back of the class and watch people shamble in. So it goes.
PS: And the people that are not prepared during the week they know they are on call? Yeah, I don't like you either.
PPS: The title is a reference to 1984. And I took the word "hate" out of the body of the post because it's too strong a word.
People continued talking well past 10:00. Enough people showed up to start class at 10:04:30. Starting 4.5 minutes late would mean losing 7% of our class time if Prof. Swift did not keep the class over five minutes. Attendance and start times have better on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays it has been ridiculous. This is not the most extreme example, it's just the one I counted students for. Amazingly, the parade continued throughout the class. How does one show up fifteen minutes late for class? How do substantial numbers of people not show up at all (I would say that roughly 60-70 people show up for Friday Evidence)? Did they all forget where it is? Or do they simply lack respect for their fellow classmates, the professor, and the 100 or so people on the waitlist they're screwing over?
I understand not everyone is perfectly punctual. But the law is (compare, statute of limitations). This is law school. I have yet to work in a firm, but I expect (and hope) that meetings start on time. Judges start on time too. My judge this summer told us a hilarious, and overtly cautionary story, about punctuality. She had an attorney who kept missing his client's hearings. Finally, on the third missed hearing, she dispatched the federal marshals (it turned out he was in another courtroom acorss town), had the attorney put in handcuffs, placed in the back of the car, driven to the courthouse, and dragged up to her courtroom (still shackled). HIs client deserved his attorney's presence, and so did the judge, opposing counsel, and the rest of the court. According to the judge, the attorney never showed up late again in all her dealings with him.
I know it's an asshole thing to do -to sit in the back of the class and watch people shamble in. So it goes.
PS: And the people that are not prepared during the week they know they are on call? Yeah, I don't like you either.
PPS: The title is a reference to 1984. And I took the word "hate" out of the body of the post because it's too strong a word.
Labels: 0L/1L Advice, Law School
posted by Tom Fletcher at 12:31 PM
22 Comments:
Thank you, Tom. It needs to be said. I've noticed that many of the same people come late day after day.
Beginning next week, those participating in the OC's SuperSpy game should be allowed to shoot anyone who comes to class late. Or whispers incessantly in the library (I hear you and you're just as annoyoing as people speaking at full volume). Or is a member of the OC, because aside from putting on a cool game, you're a huge embarrassment.
The Second Amendment can do great things at Boalt.
As long as it's time to announce who we don't like at Boalt I would like to say that pretentious gasbags who sit in judgment over how other people spend their time and then delude themselves into thinking that anyone gives a shit about what they have to say are about as interesting as day old turds.
As for whoever asserted that the "Second Amendment can do great things at Boalt," please try and keep your fetishes to yourself. I know that it makes you nice and hard to think about doing violence to your classmates, but this is probably not the forum to express those feelings.
There's a lot of negativity around the blog this week. Thank god spring break's around the corner.
All you folks need to go somewhere warm and get laid.
Regarding the OC SuperSpy game, I advise people playing to keep their squirt guns away from the classrooms and away from people's laptops, some of which cost thousands of dollars. The OC SuperSpy game, The OC Club, and the Sandy Cohen Fellowhip (a great show and fellowship!), all stand to suffer reputationally through the negligent use of said squirt guns. So stay away from laptops and classrooms. Keep the game outside and in the hallways where it belongs, or folks'll get all Ryan Atwood on you (figuratively). Or perhaps Ryan Atwood has hung up his sparring gloves. Perhaps the proper character to invoke is Volcheck.
Dude you're so annoying.
Come on, you're a grad student. Now is the time to arrive late, do whatever else you listed, and just generally not care.
When you are actually working you can worry about being on time. Until then, enjoy the ability to let it all hang out, it lasts such a short time. You have the rest of your life to be punctual.
"As for whoever asserted that the 'Second Amendment'"
Hey turd, when you take comments about squirt guns and the second amendment literally, I tend to assume you're jackass who insults co-bloggers and other commenters instead of adding anything substantive. Your comment is about as valuable as a 1Ls thoughts on Legislation. Hope you know what I like to do to comments like that...
Amen, Armen. Isn't it funny how the same person who admonishes others for "doing violence to your classmates" would IN THE SAME POST refer to Fletcher as a "pretentious gasbag" and compare him to a "day old turd?" Nice. How is anybody to take that sort of person seriously?
The OP is clearly a total fucking douchebag. There, I've said what everyone must be thinking.
What's the OP? You mean OC? What?
Not counting all the money I am losing by not working and living expenses, I am paying $24,340.90 a year in tuition to be at Boalt. If I want to be 15 minutes late to class because I would rather get a coffee from Strada before I stroll in, I will. For that matter, if I want to just catch the last 15 minutes of class, I will because I paid for it. The examples the OP gave just aren’t applicable because in those circumstances you are being PAID to be there. Unless the OP wants to pay fellow students to be on time, he should get over the fact that some people really don’t care about being late.
In Defense of Tom...
As someone who often strolls into Evidence late, I want to tell Tom, "Yo Tom, it's cool." But then the above post pushed me in the other direction.
We're not Stanfurd. Just because you pay X dollars in fees doesn't mean you can dance around the law school and spray paint your name all over the walls and employees who are here. We don't have legacy admissions (yet) and your fee dollars aren't enough to get your name even on a busted printer in the Lexis lab. Complain to the Regents about what your $24k does and doesn't get you. I think I can say confidently that your whopping $24k (the same that everyone else pays) is not nearly enough to stop your classmates from bitching at you for interrupting and distracting others while they are learning.
I am late often and I apologize to those around me, including Tom, because I know I'm being discourteous. I don't walk in and throw my CARS statement around and tell them to quit their yapping as a sip extra loudly on my non-fat soy latte.
My dinner offer is still on though. Or we can do coffee.
Hoofuckinrah, Tom, hoofuckinrah. I'm with you.
But you'll note that 1Ls are not, as a general rule, late. Does our ability to effectively gun decrease with time and the accretion of Ps on our transcript? Do we care?
And I'd like to say that day old turds are very interesting. The way they so gorgeously dissolve, untouched and unadorned in the bowl...
Armen, you are so cute when you are being passionate. What an alpha male, you sure told me where I could stick my paltry 24K with that bold type. I surrender! Do you think my tuition would be enough to adopt at least one toilet in the women’s restroom?
I just have to ask though…do you really miss that much "learning" in the seconds it takes to glare at someone for being late? I'll grant that coming in late can be distracting (even annoying), but I don't think it is that big of a deal. Life is too short to be an unhappy control freak.
Folks - be late to class if you want to. Better yet, don't even bother coming.
It's your life.
People may complain, but the original poster is out of line for equating not coming to class or coming late with not coming to court or coming late to represent your client. The two are incredibly different situations. The teacher is not the client, nor are your classmates your clients. Moreover, there is no employer-employee relationship of any kind that would create a set of duties that you are absconding. Sure, the original poster may be trying to push some moral duty on you. But it's possible that those who are coming in late or not coming can play the morality card. Perhaps they've been spending their week working tirelessly for real clients in clinics -- clients who actually have pressing legal problems. Supposedly Boalt students are more than academic machines; they are celebrated for their selfless extra-curricular pursuits in the name of social justice.
The academic rules are vague regarding what kind of attendance is truly, truly required. It's not a bright line rule, as they say, unless the teacher makes it a bright line rule.
Spotty class attendance 2L and 3L year is a time-honored law school tradition. Some of the most celebrated attorneys at firms, who did quite well in law school, openly proclaim that they never attended a single Evidence class, yet excelled in law school. Their firm bios attest to that too. Professors at Boalt and beyond also testify to missing lots of class when they were students, yet they have made tremendous contributions to their fields. Class isn't a courtroom that requires mandatory attendance or else.
Don't worry about the wait-list argument. Most everyone at Boalt who wanted to take Evidence could have done so this year with Vetter. That class is incredibly undersubscribed. You're not taking anyone's Evidence seat. Anyway, if those 2L's and 3L's had your seat, they'd probably have dodgy attendance as well. After all, if they were so intent on taking Evidence and going to every class, you'd think more of them would have had the diligence and morning abilities to sign up for the 8:30 AM Vetter class. They didn't.
At best, the argument is that you shouldn't be disturbing the comprehension of others by coming late. Maybe yes, maybe no. The Internet is probably FAR MORE distracting to individual students then people coming in late. Maybe in-class wireless Internet should be banned first before cutting off the heads of people who come in late. And the teacher often makes up the time at the end, as the original post suggests.
Anyway, don't bother coming to class. It's okay. Your classmates won't hold it against you. Have a good time, 2L's and 3L's. The firm won't let you sleep late. Enjoy your freedom while you can.
Yeah it's not that big a deal and that was my reaction reading Tom's post. But unless YOU'RE going to fund my entire summer, YOU don't have any special privileges to claim that YOU have some entitlement to come late and disrupt others who have paid the same fees (NOTE: California public schools still technically don't have tuition. That's something reserved for privates and I sense the mind set that comes with that.) Put another way, while YOU'RE taking something away from everyone else, YOU'RE not paying a goddamn penny more to make up for it.
Really, it's not worth your effort to open this can of worms about disrupting class and fees. Hope the CAPS LOCK helped.
I don't see a problem with skipping class. We're all adults here, and we all take the same exam whether we shoew up or not. Playing distracting games in the front row or showing up late is different. Especially showing up late. It's rude, it shows a lack of respect for the professor, and it takes away from class. Distractions on the computers aren't nearly as bad, but I sure would appreciate it if people who want to make their screen flash would sit in the back. I understand if people come in a few minutes late, as long as they try not to make a habit of it. I've come in a little late before, but once class is rolling I think you've missed your opportunity. Finish your coffee. Read the next case. Go back home if you want. Please don't disrupt class by shuffling to your seat after everyone else is settled in.
Gee folks, is it just me or am I the only one who has never found other folks showing up late disturbing to me in the least. Amusing, perhaps, but distracting? Anyway, people have their reasons to be late, so it ain't up to me to judge. Besides, I think it's better to show up late (even for the last 20 minutes of class) than to not show up at all.
I would second 7:20 pm who cites wireless Internet as a much bigger distraction. I am more likely to be distracted by the sight of all of the Cal Mail screens up on laptops (inlcuding my own, I must admit). Though cutting off AirBears would more likely just shift my idle mind to Solitaire and Free Cell rather than taking notes.
But anyway, I thought all that Adderall you folks are taking would give you enough focus to block out the tardy folk.
I'd like to remind that the distracting later arrival is not the main problem, it's that this causes the class to start late.
i admit, i'm one of the frequently tardy. i feel guilty and don't like disturbing class. but the vagaries of BART and the bus system in Berkeley often conspire against me--one day i could be perfectly on time, another 10 minutes late.
if people aren't in class tho, swift should just start, and people miss what they miss. sure it might annoy her, but it's the late people's loss--she's been doing this long enough to not get phased by people walking in. and even when class starts on time, she has a tendency to go over by 5 minutes.
I live with Tom Fletcher, and I can assure you that he is not an old turd, but rather a fresh and fragrant one. I just wanted to be sure that the record was quite clear on this point.
That's it. Daniel Redman, I've had enough of your slandering. I'm smashing down your door the next time your alarm clock goes off! Why can't people like you just do things on time???
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