Saturday, July 22, 2006

CLR and Other Journals

If you would like background, please visit the journal pages at Boalt. Membership is open to every 1L for all the journals except the California Law Review. At the end of 1L year, there is a writing competition that determines membership to CLR. Grades are not considered.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, when do we hear from CLR? Or have the fortunate ones already heard? I know they said by Aug 15, but I can't imagine them telling us 1 week before school starts.

7/22/2006 1:25 PM  
Anonymous Arthur Liou said...

Hi, we will begin notifying people this week. The people who are accepted will be contacted first in case they wish to decline membership. After that, we let everyone else know. One way or the other, you should hear within the next two weeks or so.

All the packets this year were very good, but unfortunately we can't admit everyone. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me or Ronnie Lin.

7/24/2006 8:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks Arthur! It's nice to have this info.

7/24/2006 9:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't hear today. Does that mean I didn't make it?

7/24/2006 6:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

according to, some people got calls last night. but it might be misinformation.

7/25/2006 7:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I got a call last night with the good news. I don't know if they got in touch with everyone though.

7/25/2006 7:52 AM  
Anonymous Arthur Liou said...

We have started contacting people but haven't contacted everyone who was accepted, so the fact that you didn't get called last night doesn't necessarily mean you didn't make it. Again, if you have questions you can contact me directly, especially because I don't read this blog very often.

7/25/2006 7:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sigh, the anxiety continues. I have yelled at 3 people so far for calling my cell phone in the evening.

I wonder if anyone ever turns down an offer? I can't imagine anyone would go through all that work only to decide they don't want to be on CLR.

7/25/2006 8:10 AM  
Blogger Armen said...

Arthur, what an insult!!!!!!!! More seriously, thank you for responding to the questions posed.

8:10, relax, get a grip, the odds are very much against you.

7/25/2006 8:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Armen, you're quite the ray of sunshine on this blog, aren't you?

7/25/2006 9:34 AM  
Blogger Armen said...

Point well taken. For those still waiting to hear from CLR, don't worry, you will get a call soon. Congratulations. Everyone will make it. It's not really a competition. This is Berkeley afterall, if we're not egalitarian about the flagship journal then what the hell are we egalitarian about?

Sarcasm aside, I and the 180 other 3Ls went through this last year. It's not fun, but at the same time it's no reason to get snappy with anyone who calls you in the evening. No, seriously. It's not that important. If you make it on, congratulations, and I really mean that, congratulations. It's one of the premier law reviews and it takes a lot of dedication to run it. I have nothing short of awe and admiration for the CLR people.

But your life doesn't end when you get that letter. If you truly still want to be on CLR, then start working on your writing requirement and turn it into a publishable note. If it's published by CLR, you're on. If you didn't run for an editorial position with another journal, go back and ask the EICs if there are any appointed positions.

But if you want to see how we coped, you can read the comments to this thread. It's where I first called the Class of 2008 whiney. Boy have you guys proved me wrong.

7/25/2006 10:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Armen, the "yelled at 3 people" comment was a joke.

- 8:10am

7/25/2006 10:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

NO IT WASN'T!!! Why are you attempting to minimize my anxiety?

- The REAL 8:10am

7/25/2006 12:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Arthur,

Is it safe to assume that if we don't get a call today, we are not in?

7/25/2006 4:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:16 he already said that they were notifying people "this week" not "Monday and Tuesday"

So why would you assume you are not in if you don't hear today?

Everyone take a breath.

7/25/2006 4:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:21: I am asking because I can't really see how it would take a week to make phone calls to approximately less than 60 people. (I admit I don't actually know how many people will be selected)

7/25/2006 4:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:43, I'm with you. It seems strange that they would only make a few calls per evening. If we didn't make it by now, I seriously doubt we're going to get a call.

7/25/2006 7:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how many people got calls wednesday night?

7/25/2006 10:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What if we don't have a phone? This seems awfully biased against people like me.

7/26/2006 1:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey jackasses:
Arthur and Ronnie have JOBS. They can't sit down and make 60 calls in one day. Just chill the eff out and wait a few days. Also, if you don't make CLR, you will be very happy come about September when you are totally overwhelmed without it and the people who do make CLR will be happy you didn't turn it into douchebag central.

7/26/2006 6:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:31 - you're making the assumption that Arthur and Ronnie make all the calls. it makes more sense that the work would be divvied up. plus, even if only two people were making all the calls, it wouldn't take more than two evenings (~2hr total) to make 30 calls.

- jackass

7/26/2006 7:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not to distract from the anxiety of awaiting for CLR results, but I wanted to ask about the other journals. Which ones should us OLs avoid and which ones are good for those who won't make CLR but want to be involved in a journal regardless? Does everybody and their mother do Law and Technology??


7/26/2006 7:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTLJ (Law & Tech) and BJIL(International Law) are really popular ones.

however, they are done purely for resume padding. all you do is cite check and proofread for 20hrs/semester. you learn nothing. thus it really doesn't matter which one you join. join whichever has the best food.

7/26/2006 7:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:31 AM said: "and the people who do make CLR will be happy you didn't turn it into douchebag central."

Too late.

7/26/2006 8:23 AM  
Anonymous Puneet (3L) said...

I say this with total bias--I am on Berkeley Journal of Employment and Labor Law. I love it! It's small, so you can get to know everybody and advance beyond cite-checking quickly.

It's great if you have an interest in working people, civil rights, discrimination, women's rights (pregnancy leave, sexual harassment, career advancement), health care, pensions, international labor markets (we get a lot of econ.), free speech (Garcetti v. Ceballos, anyone?), etc.

Not to say that there isn't the grunt work associated with being on a journal, just that unlike the larger journals, you won't be part of a cite-checking machine. 1Ls regularly publish book reviews and recent cases.

Plus we have the best journal office, hands down.

7/26/2006 10:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, so back to CLR. Have all the calls gone out?

7/26/2006 10:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

game over.

7/26/2006 11:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Arthur -
How many people completed the write-on packet and how many were accepted?

7/26/2006 12:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:45am - how are you sure?

The logical side of me agrees with you, because it wouldn't take more than a day or two at most to make all the calls. But the piece of me that's looking for a glimmer of hope says that Arthur *did* say calls would be going out all week. Why must they play these games with us?

7/26/2006 12:58 PM  
Blogger Tom Fletcher said...

Anxious 1Ls sitting by the phone,

Worry not. None of the goofballs who post on this blog made CLR. You could still turn out just like us.

(granted, that may be cause for intense concern...)

You can still get a great job, and [fingers crossed] clerkship. And you'll have a lot more time to study (or goof off),


7/26/2006 2:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom, that's very easy to say coming from someone with stellar grades. And it *will* hurt a clerkship application. Some of us care about stuff other than landing some boilerplate gig at a big law firm.

7/26/2006 2:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My guess is that CLR has called all the accepted students but they're waiting to hear confirmations. They're probably taking the rest of the week to call alternates.

They asked me to confirm as soon as possible and I know others who haven't confirmed yet.

7/26/2006 3:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just to set the record straight, BJIL (and pretty much every other journal), will offer you far more than a resume item and some cite checking work. Law journals are communities, and many students find them to be the most rewarding experiences of their law school career.

What you get out of the journal experience will depend on what you put in. If you want it to simply be a resume item, you're free to complete the minimum work requirement and move on with your life. But, if you want more you can have it -- just show up at events, express interest in the work, and chat it up with the 2Ls and 3Ls on the journal (we love, more than anything, to give advice).

7/26/2006 3:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It definitely sucks to go through the write-on process and then not get on, but there are glimmers of hope...First, some people use their casenote as a writing sample for applications down the road, so it need not all be for naught.

Second, you can still get on CLR by "publishing on." Few students actually pursue this option, so you've got a good shot at getting published - which means also becoming a clr member - if you write an interesting, well-organized paper on a concise topic. I think you can do this up until 10/31 of your 3L year. AND, getting on the journal later means less work because they discount your assignments based on when you join. So it's worth it to take a writing seminar, produce a good paper, and submit it to clr (and other journals - having something published almost anywhere looks GREAT). You can also sign up for some independent research units for the time it takes to "make it publishable" (beef up the intro, add a roadmap & more footnotes, basically) - this will help you get to know a professor, too (very important for letters of rec later on).

Finally, there are a bunch of other great journals on campus that are open to everyone and taking on an editorial position in one of these also looks great on the resume and displays a similar skill set to clr work.

7/26/2006 3:19 PM  
Blogger Tom Fletcher said...

Touche Anonymouse 2:32. It will hurt a clerkship application, I think especially at the appellate level where they're looking for footnotes and reams of research. Hopefully, there's one understanding judge out there. I'll let you know how it goes.

But hear out the non-traditional alternatives. You mention grades - it's much easier when you have your time to study because everyone else is stymied and stupified by journal work.

Also consider: being an RA. If you get a professor with whom you have a good rapport, it's a lot of fun. You may even develop the same substantive skills as CLR - research, editing, etc. - but with pay (oh, sweet tuition reduction!) and with a much easier path to a letter of recommendation. It also closes the mystical gap between professor and student and can create a real friendship.

Others: moot court. In my imagination, a trial court might prefer this! If you don't make moot court (I seem to have spectacular luck with tryouts at Boalt), consider coaching high schoolers. I did, and I loved every moment of it. Those kids put a lot of work into mastering a series of tricky skills, and there's nothing quite as juvenilely entertaining as kicking it with teenagers.

I just want to convey how *not* the end of the world it is (from having been pretty glum last end-of-summer). There are many creative and entertaining alternatives, which can require much less work and much less of the rumored dogma that embroils the august Review.

As for the boilerplate law firm gig... I'm letting that jab fall. Come talk to me in person (buy me a drink), and I'll tell you how non-boilerplate and exciting it can be. Even at a firm, you have clients who are people who desperately need your help.

7/26/2006 6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good work, Tom. Talk them down from the ledge--there's no need to jump.

I didn't make it onto CLR and I got involved in a small journal and took an active role, involving grunt work galore but bringing a sense of accomplishment. I also took part in moot court, which is much more fun than journal work, and our team had a great time, got to travel (expenses paid!), and did ok too.

So am I less competitive for prestigious jobs? Undoubtedly. But guess what: it's ok. I'm a good person and I like myself.

So when you get that lemmon of a CLR rejection letter, you know what to do. And I don't mean chuck it at Tom in rage.

7/26/2006 9:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom - I apologize if my comments came across as spiteful. The "boilerplate law firm" comment was not directed at you -- it was more rooted in my frustration with the general assumption that law students only care about getting a fancy firm job and a nice bonus.

7/27/2006 7:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

don't forget free car rides home after 8!

tom, i admire your patience when dealing with douchebags who are unjustifiably out to get you when all you do is offer words of encouragement. you will make a great father for an adolescent boy.

7/28/2006 1:00 PM  
Blogger Tom Fletcher said...

7:02, no offense taken. I hope the week turned out well for you.

7/29/2006 9:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay.. so basically you can claim membership if you do the minimum required work. How competative is it to get an editing position. I am sure that it depends on the journal but what is the range like? If you don't join your first semester, first year are you out of the running?

7/31/2006 9:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:47am - based on my experience, lots of people joined second semester of 1L year and successfully ran for an editorial position. the whole secondary journal thing is a joke.

7/31/2006 10:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:47, why do you think that the secondary journal allowment is a joke?

7/31/2006 12:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Secondary journals are a joke because

1) for the most part, you don't really learn anything from doing them. the bulk of the work is administrative tasks and cite checking.
2) elections are meaningless. people join second semester and run for office, sans qualification or interest in the journal beyond a resume padder.

sure it's an opportunity to meet some 2Ls and 3Ls and have a nice office to hang out in and get sodas from, but one's time could be much better spent on an organization that provides substantive work (or focusing on your classes)

7/31/2006 1:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:19:
I think both 1) and 2) apply pretty well to CLR as well.

7/31/2006 2:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Journal work of some sort is almost a requirement for federal court clerkships. Some other post-grad jobs don't really care. It's good to think about your future options & priorities when deciding what to spend your time on in 1L & 2L year. Many people have very rewarding journal experiences and there is almost always interesting & substantive work to be done if you ask for it.

7/31/2006 3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:23 - you're absolutely right, but CLR has an additional point, which is that admission is based on the writing competition so having it on your resume means something.

8/01/2006 7:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some of these commenters obviously have no idea what they are talking about. Being on the board of a journal is not resume padding - at least the 100 hours or so I've put into it this summer is not what I would consider padding. I've learned a lot in the subject matter and more importantly I'm making connections and learning who the important people are in my chosen field. If you know what you want to do, choose that journal and pay attention and make connections. For what it's worth, I didn't vote for anyone who joined second semester and who I didn't see hanging out in the office. And guess what, neither did anyone else. It is really obvious who the resume padders are and they will not become board members (unless maybe the journal is tiny). Regarding journal snobbery - get an f-in' life, people... you can master plan your whole life and be miserable, or you can have a little fun (I use the term fun lightly here) and do things like join a journal where you will meet some incredible people with interests similar to you. Life at Boalt is all what you make it. I chose not to do the write on competition with CLR because everyone I know who is on it is utterly miserable, but I have nothing against those who want to do it. Live and let live.

8/04/2006 5:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Soooo... for those who didn't write on to CLR, what's the procedure for writing and submitting an article as an alternative way of getting on?

Specifically what's the deadline for submitting an article and what type of article should one submit (casenote? seminar paper?)

8/07/2006 8:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are they done contacting people?

8/08/2006 9:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:55: Look at It's in there. You're already behind the 8-ball.

8/09/2006 5:16 PM  
Blogger tatiana said...

THIS is another comment

3/10/2007 2:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, I just got my CLR write-on packet and damn does it smell nasty! I mean I sorta, kinda understand having to go through a bunch of academic hand-wringing competition hell to get on to the "prestige" journal here. But what I don't understand is why they have to make me smell ass on top of that!

5/11/2007 5:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When do you all think we'll be hearing back on CLR this summer?

6/16/2007 12:52 PM  
Blogger Ashley said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7/23/2007 11:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Umm...anyone want to talk about CLR?

7/25/2007 2:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anyone know how many people CLR takes from the write-on competition?

I hear rumors that a ridiculously low number of people actually finished their packets this year, so the competition should be a bit less fierce than usual.

7/25/2007 5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Accoring to the latest masthead, CLR takes around 67 students per class.

I know that people have been getting notifications this week.

7/25/2007 5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This may be a stupid comment. But the masthead has 67 people, so shouldn't that include both 2Ls and 3Ls?? So that 30-something make it from each class? Or is the masthead just 2Ls?

8/01/2007 6:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the latest masthead only has the names of rising 3L's. Those who recently graduated are nowhere to be found.

8/02/2007 3:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The masthead includes transfers. CLR admits less than 60 non-transfer rising 2Ls per year.

8/27/2007 2:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Does anyone know when transfers will hear about CLR?

9/24/2007 10:50 AM  

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