Graduation '07
Last year I wrote about the 2006 graduation, so I figured I’d recap the 2007 graduation too, for anyone who wasn’t there. This year’s was way better than last year’s—not as hot, not as long, and with good speeches. It’s possible I just think it was better, because this year I was the one wearing a cap & gown. But I talked to several of last year’s graduates who were also there this year, and they all agreed this year was a lot better. So congrats to the Class of 2007. Here’s how it went:
--It started an hour earlier, so it was a bit cooler and the sun wasn’t quite so direct until the end of the ceremony. Much nicer.
--LLM Speaker (Seagull Song): Her speech was light, pretty funny, and, most importantly, relatively short. She actually had quite a few funny jokes, and never took herself too seriously.
--Class Prez: El Presidente gave a nice, personal speech. He told some personal stories about classmates and had some nice words about the entire class. And, he got a huge ovation, which was nice after all the pointless controversy about the speaker, etc.
--Faculty Speaker, Prof. Bundy: About a thousand times better than last year. I was disappointed he didn’t sing, but it was still a nice speech. I wouldn’t have minded something a bit quirkier from him, but it was still Bundyesque and he kept it relatively short.
--Keynote Speaker, Bryan Stevenson: Well, maybe he's not quite Danny Glover, but after all the controversy on this here blog, Prof. Stevenson ended up giving a great speech and got an extended standing ovation. Can’t say I was real surprised that he turned out to be so good. The guy’s a dynamic speaker who does fascinating work, and his stories about his grandma and Rosa Parks et al. were particularly entertaining. I’m pretty sure he didn’t even have most of it written down—he was just talking, saying whatever he felt, and it came off great. I thought he did a good job of being political without being overly preachy.
One quibble: during his introduction Dean Edley made some overtly political comments. Personally, I agreed with the substance of those comments, but I still felt like it wasn’t Dean Edley’s place, at a graduation, to be making those comments. It was clear that Prof. Stevenson would be making a politically-oriented speech, so there wasn’t really any reason for Dean Edley to make comments that potentially could have alienated many students. I know many of my classmates will disagree on that point, but it’s just something I was thinking.
Awards, Advanced Degrees: This was totally different from last year. As for awards, instead of calling them up one-by-one, each was just asked to stand at their seat while a description of their accomplishments was read. I don’t think it would have been terrible for them to walk up on stage while the descriptions were being read, so that they could get one round of applause together on stage, after all the awards have been announced. All 4 were very deserving, by the way.
As for the advanced degrees, this was WAY better. Last year, they called up each person individually, read a description, etc. This year Dean Edley gave a general description of the type of work they did, and they all got hooded together. In total, the awards/advanced degrees part of the ceremony took 5-10 minutes, instead of 30-40. Huge improvement.
Awarding of Degrees: Maybe it was just where I was sitting, but the crowd seemed far more attentive this year (last year everyone was milling about and talking to each other). This was probably thanks in part to Prof. Stevenson, who helped to maintain everyone’s attention, as well as the shortened time for awarding advanced degrees. And the monotony of calling out names was broken up by the best moment of graduation: a marriage proposal! It was a pretty cool moment and got huge cheers from everyone in the audience.
Dean Edley’s speech: Just when you think you’re done…Dean Edley has something to say. His speech was better this year, because it was a somewhat more subtle plea for money. He also got genuinely choked up a couple of times when talking about how we were the first class to come in with him (I actually thought he was about to announce he was leaving the school for a minute there). But, I still don’t like the timing on this. Everyone thinks we’re done after we hand out the degrees! Put Dean Edley’s speech earlier in the program, perhaps between Bundy and Stevenson.
The reception: the brownies were excellent! So were the strawberries. One suggestion though: practically everyone from the graduation walks down one side of Gayley, and then tries to go down the same set of stairs into the courtyard, and there is a huge traffic jam. Put up a few signs showing alternate routes into Boalt.
BBQ lunch at my house: Excellent.
Saturday night: I know a few parties were happening, and thanks to those who organized them, but it would be nice to have a quasi-official graduation party that attracts as much of the class as possible. Hopefully next year BHSA or whoever else can pull something quasi-official together.
So that’s it for this year. It was a great experience, and I was glad to see the school make small tweaks to the ceremony that I think really helped improve it. Congrats 2007!
Labels: Moving Out
posted by Max Power at 4:05 PM
49 Comments:
I think that the graduation ceremony this year was great. I especially liked Dean Edley who came across as very genuine.
I'm sorry to say that the only speech I didn't care for was James'. I'm not saying that I could do better, but I felt that it was overly self-centered. He basically mentioned a few friend's of his and told an anecdote which was not hilarious and did not relate to the experience of 93.5% of the class. Overall, just a very self-centered speech whether it was intentionally so or not.
Also, who the hell are the 2-3 idiots who did not donate to the class campaign. We were so close to 100%. There is a list of 5 possible stingy motha's. Note to future generations, don't make your donation anonymous, it makes you look like one of the few people who don't even give 10 bones to the class campaign
Congratulations, 2007!
I see 5:13 is willing to stand behind his/her money when it goes to showing how cool he/she is in donating to the class campaign, but can't seem to bring him/herself to stand by his/her accusatory words in public. Wonder why that might be...
I contemplated not giving to the campaign myself after all of the disgraceful tactics used by the committee. To say that choosing not to give a very public, peer-pressure based campaign out of stingness is, to borrow EW's favorite word, a bit facile.
5:13 here.
I was never pressured into giving to the class campagn, nor did I ever feel that it was expected of me. I genuinely wanted to give something back to Boalt.
Also, as many have said before me, being anonymous doesn't reduce the quality of one's words or make what one has to say any less true.
Forgive me for not wanting to draw the wrath of my peers for being in the least bit critical and honest about how I feel.
I agree with 7:29 on both counts. James gave a great and touching speech that really resonated with me and my family loved it too. In fact, if you were paying attention you might have caught the part where Stevenson indirectly talked about how nice it was. James has put up with a lot of shit, particularly from anonymous posters on this blog, and he has done it in a very dignified manner. It is now time for people to give it a rest.
Regarding the "2-3 idiots who did not donate to the class campaign," the class campaign is over. We graduated. Who the hell really cares if we got to 100% anyway? Get over it. Also, regarding your "list of 5 possible stingy motha's," you really should check your math before you start casting suspicion on the donors who wished to be anonymous. And let's not be idiots and use this blog to launch another stupid witch hunt.
Bottom line: if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Especially about such an amazing graduation ceremony!
On a more positive note: congratulations to all of the graduates and to Abe and Megan! What a wonderful day!
If you look at the latest numbers of the Class Gift online (not the program, which is dated), only ONE individual in the Class of 2007 did not donate.
The Class of 2007, based on the numbers that the alumni office presents, seems to have had the highest giving rate of any class in the history of law school.
People need to chillax about the class campaign! Even if it is only one person who didn't donate, they probably have a good reason for not giving and people should leave them alone. The last thing we need is another stupid witch hunt. We should focus on what a great accomplishment it was to get so many folks to donate.
If there is only 1 person who did not donate, I want to know what their "good" reason for not donating is. Was there not a single program at Boalt that they benefited from and would like to see future students continue to benefit from?
I mean if there was only 1 person left, I'm sure that they were told at some point that they were the last hold-out, and that a $10 spot would be enough to give everyone the satisfaction of a 100% donor level.
Its not the fact that someone couldn't spare a few dollars for the class compaign, its The fact that the person almost surely knew that they were responsible for torpedoing the goal of so many others, and that they alone prevented Boalt from setting an unbeatable record makes that person a singy motha'.
O, the last couple of people were most definitely contacted. They were contacted personally. Their friends were emailed and asked to put pressure on the "holdouts". During finals. Offers were made to them to have someone else donate the money in their names.
I'm not exactly sure why someone would want extorted donations. I'm not sure why it seems ok to someone to send the deceitful message of 100% participation when it would have been fraudently obtained. And I'm ashamed of those Boalties who have subcribed to Machiavellian rationales.
In my view, the goal is to make Boalt such a place that people *want* to give of their own accord, not to pretend that it's such a great place that 100% of the class "participated." I am grateful for the 99% -- it should remind us that there is always room to improve Boalt. Pride goeth before the fall.
Good post, Max.
Re: your quibble with Edley's comments - I see your point about his comments being political, but if you're referring to him being openly anti-death penalty, which is the only political thing I remember, one could make an argument that the death penalty is not a political issue, but a moral one. That might be merely a rhetorical distinction, but personally I don't think it is. And I'm fine with Dean Edley talking morality even if it makes some people uncomfortable.
If you went to a private school, you are probably not at all perturbed by a school putting "pressure" on you to give. If you went to a public school, particularly a UC, then you probably find it offensive.
Maybe this one guy had a good reason not to give. Fine. But people who think the school sucks for applying very light pressure for a very reasonable fundraising goal are going to hate being lawyers - b/c you're going to get hit up for money from all sides. And the Boalt campaign is going to seem very benign in retrospect.
Graduation was wonderful all around! There was a great spirit in the air, and even the crisp chilliness of the air seemed to signal the fresh beginnings to come.
As for the student awards, part of me was disappointed that they chose such a high profile winner for the student service award. Everyone loves Robert and he's a great asset to the community, but there are several other folks who have given 200% to the school and have never received any kind of appreciation for it (not that they asked). Maybe this one award should involve some student participation aspect of it, if not voting for the ultimate winner than at least giving nominations so that those unsung heroes can have a moment for a change.
I don't know enough about the other folks who received awards to comment so I won't.
As for the class campaign: yes, a lot of work was done on the campaign, and let's just conclude it was an overall success! I wish I could say I'm sorry if people were bothered by the aggressiveness of the campaign in those last days, but the campaign had been offered some serious incentives to try to get to 100% - for the benefit of students to come. I bet if they hadn't tried to get those last few folks (they pulled in the last 15 or so in a week) there would be lots of posts about how we were so close to reaching this goal but the campaign committee were too lazy to finish it out. Somehow or another, those who put in the work never seem to win.
Mad J.D.--yes, I meant him saying the death penalty should be abolished. I don't really agree with your distinction, but I realize many (if not most) of the students were fine with his comments. I just thought they were for Stevenson to make, rather than Edley.
As for the class campaign, obviously say whatever you want, but please no Trustafarian-style witch hunts. Personally, I don't really understand the fixation on 100% participation. But I do understand that Dean Edley has spent the past 3 years lamenting the lack of a culture of giving amongst Boalt alums. It surprises me that the same attitude Edley has been fighting against is pervasive within our own class. And I don't just mean the person who didn't end up giving--understand that many people gave a token amount, or that other students donated "on their behalf." While our class certainly did a great job, the 99% figure is a bit of an illusion.
This isn't to criticize the class campaign committee in any way. They did a great job and clearly care a lot about the school. I just hope that Dean Edley is here long enough to help convince alums and students that giving back to Boalt is important.
.
I'm not a 3L - but I can sympathize with anyone who didn't feel like making a donation to the class gift. Sure, we all benefit from Boalt. But it's not like going to Boalt is free.
Besides, asking someone to give immediately upon graduation might be asking them to give when their debt is at its peak. In effect, you're asking them to give borrowed money. Not all of us have any financial support from home, most of us didn't receive scholarships of any kind, some of us have families to support, and some of us are going into jobs that pay next to nothing (and not all of those benefit from the much-improved lrap program).
Sure, $10 seems like a small amount - but I wouldn't hold it against ANYBODY if they didn't want to borrow $10 to donate to the school. AFTER they get a job with a nice fat paycheck, sure - go after them for money. Taking "pledges" would be preferable.
As far as them "ruining" a goal of 100% participation - it annoys me when people set "goals" that involve someone else's participation as a metric of success. Your goal for someone else's participation is irrelevant - what should matter most is your personal goal for how much you want to give.
I'll take a shot at explaining why the 100% figure is significant (and why "token" amounts are a specious distinction) and ultimately provides great value to our class.
Imagine Dean Edley meeting with alumni from previous decades. If he can say "The Class of '07 contributed 100% to their class gift - _every single student_ gave. And this is a class which saw its tuition go up every year as state support went down. Those who are on the ground know how important private support is to Boalt. At the time when your class was at Boalt, you benefitted from very low tuition and were not asked to give. Please give now that we need your support."
It takes a bit away from that statement if Dean Edley has to say "99.7%" or "100% -rounding up" or "nearly every single student."
By the way, we DID reach 100%. 99.74% rounds up to 100%, unless you are the kind of person who has to give every number out to two decimal points.
The last two posts are a great example of the glass-half-full/glass-half-empty distinction.
SS said...
I'll second Armen.
I've attended way too many college/university commencement ceremonies..something like 20. Some had name speakers (like Hillary), some not-so-much. So I have standing to say that ours was a good ceremony. It was nice and short. The speeches were all fine. Hell, I actually listened to them...'nuff said. And I'm super glad that the top student (grades-wise) was Yoni...I couldn't think of a kinder, more deserving person.
Congratulations everyone!
who the heck is the class president>????
SS said...
Doh! I meant that I was seconding Max Power! And here I thought that I was finally going to agree with Armen about something. ;D
I'll pile on with the kudos for the general management of graduation. Bryan Stevenson was, and I was initially a doubter, a fantastic speaker. (I should note that I was not a doubter that he would give a fine speech, but that I am a sucker for a "name speaker". Graduations are largely for parents, and my parents at least love a big name. Law students, of course, appreciate a Bryan Stevenson's contributions on a different level. But in the end, his talk was tremendously moving and perfectly pitched. A most unusual, but satisfying, graduation speech.
I didn't take offense at Edley's opening. Edley is a liberal activist (to the extent that he is identifiably democrat and has served in democratic administrations), and I wouldn't want nor expect him to temper his enthusiasm for a speaker whose views coincide with his own simply because of that coincidence. If he had openly denigrated a hypothetical conservative speaker (I would have LOVED to see Ted Olson, Boalt alum, for example) I would feel that was somehow an instance of inappropriate interjection of his personal politics. Perhaps that position seems untenable, but to me it somehow makes sense.
The reception was great, and I loved the faculty turn out. It meant a lot to my parents, who are academics, to meet my teachers.
I would second the comments re: the quasi-official party. The place that was chosen, Suite 181, was pretty terrible. I found out upon arrival that no sneakers were allowed (something that could have been mentioned in the eVite, but also an incredibly inane rule by itself. Note to bouncers: Hi, my sneakers cost more and look cooler than that girl's Steve Maddens. Am I a snob? Sure, but I also have taste. And you want people with a)taste and b) money in your club.) In any case, I didn't go in upon learning of the policy. I was OK with that, because the line to get in was about 150 people long. And almost none of them Boalties, as far as I could see. From what I hear from a friend who did go in, it was a $20 cover (for those who arrive at normal (i.e. after 10 pm) club time, and the area Boalt had reserved was small so they had trouble getting in there... This is not to criticize the organizers who stepped up, because I know that as late as a few days before graduation, there was no apparent plan at all. Just for next year's folks to consider: 1) don't pick the trendiest place, pick a place that has space to accomodate a big group and a friendly door policy. 2) Pick a place that maybe would be willing to shut its doors to the general public for a Saturday on the promise of a couple hundred law students/friends/family willing to pay for entry/drinks. I didn't really care about the DJ or decor, just a last hurrah with a huge mess of classmates, my close friends and not-so-close friends. Oh well.
Like all my posts, this one is too long. Oh well.
Major props on the ceremony, all around. It was short, sweet and to the point. Most importantly, Stevenson was an awesome speaker. I admit that I had reservations about the receptiveness of relatives and friends in the audience towards a relatively unknown, rather left-wing speaker. I certainly don’t share many of Stevenson’s opinions and neither do the people I invited (they are all die-hard, hang-‘em-high, Republicans). But Stevenson rocked, and my family and friends loved him. We spent a good hour in the afternoon talking about how great he was. I’m not kidding.
As per the 100% participation thing – that’s really a non-issue. The beauty of donations is that they are voluntary. Our high percentage of voluntary donations is indicative of our connection to Boalt. Of course there will be holdouts – and that’s fine – everyone chooses when and how much to donate. There is no stigma in not giving, but there is definitely honor in donating.
Who won what awards?
I have only one gripe about graduation and that's the regalia. As someone who went straight through from undergrad to law school, I had no idea what these "hoods" were actually supposed to look like. I just figured that dishing out the kind of money that I did would ensure that mine was the sort that is supposed to be worn by a person at my degree level. When I got mine, it didn't seem to have any obvious blemishes, so I ironed it and got ready to wear it for the big day. Only when I got in line did I realize that the "cape" portion of my hood was different from that of most everyone who was lined up for graduation. Mine was sewn together underneath. At that point, it was too late to do anything about it. My classmates assured me that it wasn't an obvious blemish. At graduation, I realized that every single LLM student had a hood just like mine. Turns out that I got an LLM or master's hood rather than the "cape-out" style that is supposed to be worn by a JD candidate. I ordered a JD regalia and am more than slightly pissed that I didn't get the correct hood. I feel like my hard work and degree have been degraded. I suppose I am not changing anything by bitching about it now, but may I suggest that next year someone advise the JD and LLM candidates of the slight difference between their hoods so that when inexperienced students like me get their regalia, they can make sure they are wearing the right stuff at graduation?
Oh coooooooooooome on. The JD is nothing more than glorified masters. It's almost fraudulent to wear doctoral hoods and the velvet stripes. Buy yourself a doctoral hood and gown and prance around the apartment during bar prep. Would that heal the wounds?
graduation honestly exceeded all of my expectations- it was absolutely perfect- thank you SO much to everyone who played a role in planning it!!!! you guys did an amazing job!!!
Hey 8:45--
I know the JD stands for juris doctorate. But that's a little misleading. Did you notice that there were doctor of laws candidates up there? Technically, I think the LLM is "higher" than the JD. That's why the JDs graduated last. The LLM is a degree program for those who already have a law degree. Typically it is a foreign law degree, but it needn't be. There are LLM programs just for tax, for example. And the admits already have their american JDs.
Point is, I think you were inadvertently promoted, not demoted. If only somehow you could have scored the full doctor of laws hood...then you'll really have something!
I've got to disagree with Tacitus. There were far too few faculty at graduation. I mean, come on! Of the approximately 24 profs I've had, only 2 were on stage! That's pitiful. It's not like we pay their salaries or something (or, if you want to go the taxpayer route, we pay that way *and* our parents pay). I know it's hard to get up on a Saturday. And I know they have families. But to make up for the extra day, maybe they could decide to not come in on Friday. :) Or, perhaps like every other law prof, they really only come in a couple days a week anyway.
Here's an idea. Put them on rotation. Each prof has to attend once every 3 years. So at any given graduation, 1/3 of the faculty would be present. It's not like being a law prof is a hard gig, KWIM?
There were far too few faculty at graduation. I mean, come on! Of the approximately 24 profs I've had, only 2 were on stage
Cry me a river. At UCLA's History Department Commencement (a department that's easily twice the size of the law school) there were 6 faculty. Hell I had classes with 3 out of the 4 who were calling names. So umm, in a polite way, you're full of it.
Re: Regalia again
Notwithstanding claims that a JD is a glorified MA, I had a right to wear the same thing as the rest of my classmates who were getting a JD. If our school deemed it appropriate for us to get doctoral robes, I should have gotten a doctoral robe, plain and simple.
SS said:
Armen: the only thing you've demonstrated is that the UCLA faculty suck -- oops, I mean, have more to do on Saturday morning of graduation -- than Boalt faculty. Not a compelling retort.
The Boalt faculty attendance was the smallest I've seen. Everywhere I've been, it is expressly a part of a faculty member's *job* to attend. I'd be surprised if Boalt is any different.
Maybe tenure track faculty. ZING!
But more seriously, what kind of a selfish, egomaniacal mind does it take to suggest compulsion to attend graduation ceremonies? Are we/you/they so full of him/her/themselves to really think that it is somehow ok to compel faculty to attend something that's only important to YOU? Much like relatives and friends, if they don't want to be there, that's THEIR choice. By griping about it all you do is draw attention to your whiny little attitude.
This is becoming a joke basically. I can't take the gripings with a modicum of seriousness. Wah wah the school needs to hold my hand to make sure I can put on a gown properly. Wah wah I didn't get a hug from a professor. Wah wah a speech ran 30 seconds too long. Ever hear of the boy who cried wolf? Last year MP's post made serious constructive criticism that apparently were listened to by the admin. This is what this year's constructive criticisms look like? We need to have faculty on rotation like it's some residency program at an inner city hospital? REALLY?
How's that for a retort SS?
It didn't seem to me like there was a lack of faculty there.
All I know is that the best professor I had at Boalt, Prof. Swift, read my name and had a nice hello when I handed her my name card, and then my favorite professor, Prof. Murphy, was helping hand out the "degrees." She seemed generally thrilled to be up there and gave me a big congratulations when she saw me. Maybe there wasn't quantity (though I'm not sure that was true), but there was definitely quality.
SS said:
Well, I *was* tenure track (and on track for tenure) everywhere I have been on the faculty. So I don't know who you think you are zinging, but it's not me. As for the substance...if you are suggesting that only faculty with nothing better to do attend graduation, that certainly doesn't hold true for the world class faculty who I've seen at various graduations. In fact, the best are often there to hood their doctoral students.
And perhaps we whiners are just looking for a few more nice moments as described by Max Power.
And as for your "compelled behavior" argument ... there are things that are part of your job, you have a choice to the extent that you are in your job by choice. By your argument, the faculty shouldn't show up to class if they don't feel like it on a given day. No, that's the prerogative of the student, the one who foots the bill.
Now just admit that you're being belligerent because you're still working on a paper. :) My excuse??? ...the chainsaw outside my house...
This thread is classic Class of 2007 (at least those who post on this blog): People complaining about things. Somehow I'm not surprised.
Hopefully the class of 08 can take some of the suggestions here and make graduation something no one can complain about.
SS said..
I agree that it is classic Boalt. The small quibbles by a few people (97.92% participation? one guy's hood was wrong? and too few faculty (a *perrenial* complaint)) shows that nothing's really wrong. It was an all around good commencement! And the people who ran it should be commended!
Sometimes things can go really wrong. I was a commencement marshall when the class ahead of me graduated. We (mostly I) miscounted chairs...and the 50th reunion class had nowhere to sit after processing across the stage. Oops.
I absolutely loved the ceremony. However, my favorite part was the band. It was so fun to realize that a steel drum band was playing pomp & circumstance reggae-style -- so very Berkeley and SO perfect for graduation. I loved it!
I also loved commencement. The steel drums were awesome. The speeches by Bundy and Stevenson were quite nice. Dean Edley's comments were poignant. The class valedictorian (first in the class)deserved lots of recognition for his academic achievement; he's also a really nice guy. The awarding of J.D.'s went by so fast for me because I was so happy to see friends on stage and hear the joy of their family and friends.
Thanks to JC and the rest of the graduation committee for an awesome day. Also, HP, we will miss you!!!
I agree with S.S. that it's important for Boalt faculty to attend commencement in high numbers. Seeing all those professors on stage made me feel that the faculty supported me and my classmates.
Faculty members may regularly attend committee meetings and other formal events where they "dial it in" and don't necessarily contribute much. Commencement, in contrast, is a formal event, where just by attending, they contribute immensely on a symbolic level as 400 students (JD plus LLM) and about 4000 of their family and friends experience graduation. The faculty, through their presence, help build alumni community. Law students, in general, have well-honed memories -- many of us will warmly remember in years to come how Professors Swift, Talley, Murphy, Alpert, Joseph, Simon, Bundy, L. Fletcher, Caron, Mayali, Rawkoski, and others attended our graduation, particularly if we took one of their classes or had a personal connection with them. Every faculty member who attends should know that some students receive a boost when they see one of their favorite teachers or clinical directors on stage.
I hear that very few faculty used to attend commencement some years ago. Under Dean Edley, that has changed. Now, 50%-75% of the faculty might turn out. Boalt should continue increasing those numbers.
FYI - I was just in the alumni office, and they have a bound album of letters sent by DE to various groups. In the first letter (sent to alumni I think - I didn't read it too carefully) I noticed that DE stated there was 100% participation in the class campaign.
FYI - the class campaign website does say that we achieved 100%.
Wow! 99.72% was impressive to begin with, but a 100% donation rate is just amazing.
Where's the official Boalt press release that the school posts on the school's site every year regarding graduation? Did they post it yet? I wanted to send it to some friends and family as a recap of that glorious day with Bundy, Stevenson, and the Class of 2007.
Also a shout out to Prof. Sklansky and representatives from EBCLC and the other clinics who were there. Honestly, it was hard to see all of the professors from where I was sitting, but it means a lot to have them there. Part of me was surprised at a few of the faces I didn't see, but who knows--people have their reasons for not being able to make it, I guess.
Some of my guests have worked in university adminitration for many years and all of them commented on how it was one of the best ceremonies they had ever been to, if not the best. Thanks to all.
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Hey genius, ever stop and think why no one answered that question for about a month?
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