ID2
Bush commutes Libby's sentence.
No time in federal prison for perjury by a high official. Today is not a good day for the rule of law.
Thoughts?
No time in federal prison for perjury by a high official. Today is not a good day for the rule of law.
Thoughts?
Labels: Grades And Other Neurotic Bullshit, Rabid Conservatives, Rankings And Associated Bullshit
posted by Callagy at 6:42 PM
42 Comments:
Sorry to post off topic here, but does anyone know what recent years curves have been? According to the Boalt website, top 10% is generally 3.4-3.6. But last year someone indicated that 3.9 was top 10%, and another person with a 3.78 said they were in the top 10%. This seems like a drastic departure from the 3.4-3.6 cutoff, and I'm wondering if this year's curve is similarly brutal.
Oh, and to make this post not so entirely off topic: Bush is an asshat, and his decision to commute Libby's sentence is just another example of his asshattery. He can easily pay off his "stiff fines" of $250,000 with the "millions of dollars" raised for his defense fund. (Or is that prohibited?)
6:57, didn't you post that question on xoxo as well? If you're so obsessed with finding that out, I bet Dean O or the Registrar would have the information and it would be much more legitimate than any guesses or estimates you'd read here.
Mountain out of a mole hill. One name sums up my feelings on this: Bill Clinton.
I'm sure all the Democrats will be up in arms for the next few months and then everyone will write a book about it.
The Constitution clearly grants the Executive the power to pardon. It's part of the design, so it's not a bad day for the rule of law. It is a power that should probably be used sparingly, and whenever it is used, it does invite questions &, where doled out to spring a crony, a ding to public opinion. But I wouldn't call it a bad day for the rule of law.
12:03PM, I don't visit that vile site. But the fact that you think I posted the same question there evidences that you read it.
Thanks for taking the time to type out your post. Now get a life.
I think the rule of law rests in part on the popular perception of legitimacy of our system of laws. That takes a hit when used to protect a buddy, even if the Constitution is not violated.
I think commuting the sentence is better than a full pardon, but it suggests that you can buy your way out of perjury. Compare this to the most famous recent exercise of this Constitutional power: Ford's pardon of Nixon was prophylactic--Nixon was not convicted of a crime, and one could argue that the action protected the integrity of the presidency by avoiding a trial in the first place and allowing the country to move forward. Maybe or maybe not.
What does this pardon do? Allow the president to continue to claim he never knew about the chicanery in his administration with the Plame affair, and not hold those responsible for the cover-up fully accountable.
Callagy, I read your post quickly and my brain registered: "legitimacy of our system of flaws" - LOL.
I don't think that the rule of law has been hurt all that much... See 5:35.
Moreover, it has always been my opinion that Scooter Libby was the least culpable person invloved in this whole affair, it would be a form of injustice for him alone to serve a sentence.
I'm hoping that top 10% is 3.5 or less this year. I can tell you that as of last semester I, a 3L, was top 15% with a GPA in the 3.3-3.4 range, so I highly doubt that a 3.9 will be required for top 10%.
And in case anyone feels like raining spite down on my discussion of ranking, its anonymous, and it matters alot to all of us who have an interest in pursuing clerkships, and academic positions.
So here is a pre-emptive fuck off
Maybe Bush didn't violate the letter of the law, but he's still an asshat. Every day sentences are handed down with punishments that don't fit the crime. Has Bush ever thought about commuting those sentences?
Rankings: I can tell you that last year you needed to be up around 3.6 to get into top 10%. No idea if it will be the same this year.
I think Armen sarcastically suggested giving out awards to everyone in that other post. Well why not? Maybe not everyone, but if you're in the top 20 or 30%, why not? Why does it have to be Coif or nothing?
Thanks for those who offered useful info re: rankings, and thanks to those who don't care but respectfully put up with our discussion.
So, if the info posted here is accurate, last year a 3.3-3.4 was top 15% and 3.6 was top 10%. That is very useful information, because it means the top of the curve (where most people aiming for competitive clerkships will be) is very gradual.
I think the purpose of not giving out too many awards is so that it will render our grading system (or lack thereof) meaningless. If awards are given to the top 1/3, top 25%, and top 10%, then employers will be able to make a de facto approximation of people's rankings quite easily. And in that case, why not just rank everyone.
If you don't mind fielding a dumb question from a confused incoming law student, how is it possible to compute a grade point average from the Boalt grades anyway? I thought the only grades were HH, H, P, etc.? Do these equate to numerical grades somehow? Thanks!
For order of the Coif purposes
HH = 5
H= 3
P = 2
Its actually a rather harsh system which punishes those who walk the H line. Theoretically, a person in the top 15% of every class they take would be towards the middle of the Boalt official ranking system because they wouldn't receive any HH's
Hows that for fair?
It's not very fair, but arguably no system is. It's also unlikely that someone who consistently places in the top 15% of each of their clases would never make it into the top 10% in any class.
I agree with Tom that the exercise of a discretionary power constitutionally committed to the President, while perhaps showing poor political and moral judgment tending to make one look like an asshat, hardly means anything for our justice system as a whole.
What is xoxo? And does this discussion mean that we will at long last hear about Order of the Coif this week?
curve varies between years fairly widely. i've known folks in certain classes with a 3.9 who are within the top 10; 3.9 another year is right on the 5%-10% line. this year's graduating class seems lower than the last few--3.9-4.0 is within the top 10 in the class.
hey armen, could you bump up the clerkships thread, or start a new one, for those of us on the clerkships death march this summer?
Yeah sometime in the next few days I'll get stuff going on school related matters.
3:46 PM - do you mind clarifying your post? Specifically, are you saying that in some years the CUTOFF for top 10% is 3.9? (And how certain are you of your source(s)?) If this is accurate, the Registrar should update their stats to reflect this variation in the curve (as opposed to the 3.4-3.6 they advertise). And when you say that for this year's graduating class "3.9-4.0 is within the top 10 in the class" do you mean the top 10 individuals?
So if the registrar changed the sentence about Order of the Coif in your little yellow handbook, you would get better grades?
Don't be silly (or sarcastic), 12:09.
Actually, though, if the curve stats were updated to reflect the 3.4-3.9 cutoff bracket for top 10%, employers would think our grades possibly put us in a lower percentile.
Still, it sucks for those of us obsessively calculating our GPAs to gauge our competitiveness for various clerkships (for which the application date of many has already passed -- thanks, Registrar!) to think we may be at one percentile and then get a rude awakening. Many of us have gone to various professors and attorneys for advice on judges, and they ask us to estimate our ranking so they can give us an idea of what clerkships we'd be competitive for.
Hey 9:05. Has it ever occured to you that just because someone has a 3.9 and is in the top 10% (or top 10 in the class since the comment isnt clear), that it doesn't necessarily follow that 3.9 is the cutoff.
Anyway, as a recent grad, I was able to get my ranking at the end of 2L fall and spring, and 3L fall. So I have a pretty good sense of what GPA equates to what ranking. I can tell you that as of last semester, a gpa in the 3.6-3.7 range was in the top 10% (but that doesn't mean 3.6 is the cutoff).
And as somone else noted, 3.3-3.4 is top 15%. So it is likely that the line between 10-15% is somewhere between 3.4 and 3.6. The line could be anywhere in between, and could change due to spring grades (though unlikely to change much).
Seems like the Boalt website is pretty accurate.
Any 3L's who of last fall were a 3.5 want to share their ranking as of fall?
Precisely, 10:23AM. Which is why I asked for clarification.
Anyone know why they didn't calculate class rankings after the fall semester of 2L this year?
3:46 here. sorry for the confusion. i'm not saying 3.9 is cutoff for top 10%, only that I know folks who have had a 3.9 and been within the top 10% (as opposed to top 5%) in past years, so please don't freak out on the registrar to update her webpage. by top 10, i mean in the class, not percent, just as i said. how certain am i of my sources? well, i don't think my friends are liars, but maybe you would consider them to be. really, please calm down. you'll get your numbers soon enough.
that's a pretty wide variation (top 10% cutoff being around 3.4 vs. 3.6 vs. 3.9. Why shouldn't the Registrar update their stats to reflect that?
No one has ever suggested 3.9 is needed for top 10%. Just because 3.9 is in the top 10% doesn't mean 3.6 isn't as well.
From what everyone has said, the range is between 3.4 and 3.6, which is exactly what the registrar site says.
boalt alum '05 here,
i got a 3.856 and that was below the 10% cutoff my year. way below. it sucked. because of that, i didn't get a clerkship, the bank repossessed my dog and my car died. now i live in minivan down by the stream and i have to work for a firm outside of the vault top 50. it sucks.
1:53, do you have a CLUE?!? 1:04 said that 3.9 was WITHIN the top 10%, not the cutoff for top 10%. maybe if you learned how to read, you wouldn't be so stressed out about your GPA.
so you think it's possible that if a 3.9 places you between the 90th and 95th percentile (aka top 10-5% of the class), then a 3.6 could also be within the top 10% on the same curve? (this isn't a rhetorical question... I'm a math idiot and don't know the answer. It just seems like there'd be a bigger difference between a 3.6 and 3.9 than <5% on the curve.)
sooo... anyone gotten their ranking yet? we're supposed to get them by the end of this week, right?
I'm not a math whiz either, and my answer is partly wishful thinking, but...
Because HH's are only given to less than 10% of a class, and because HH's are worth 5 points while an H is only worth 3 (an exponential grade point scale) there should be a large dispersion at the top of the curve. This effect is probably only exacerbated by the few people at the very top who tend to gobble up all the HH's in their classes.
Therefore, I think that it is possible that top 10% could span from a 3.4 to a 4.0, whereas I do not think it possible that the top 10%-20% could span a range even as large as 3.4-3.1
if you check the mandatory curves carefully in the yellow planner, you will note that actually very few boalt classes are limited to 10% HH grades. in second- and third-year sections and classes, professors may give up to 45% honors grades, with up to 15% being HH. furthermore, in seminars, the curve is largely, though not completely, abolished. so, if you want a good gpa, start writing papers.
so where are the rankings already? I know D.O. said to be patient, but how long does it take to send a bunch of emails? (maybe 2 minutes per email max?) Think she's stayin late to crank those rankings out?
Anyone hear anything yet?
sheesh, give Dean O a chance. She said they wouldn't be available until the end of this week, and then asked for some patience. Seems likely it'll be today at the earliest, but more likely sometime next week.
We've given the Registrar and D.O. many, many weeks to give us our grades and class ranking. There's no reason why this should all be taking so long.
Also, if they weren't going to give us our ranking at the end of this week, why would they tell us that they'd be available at the end of this week?
another week into the summer, another week we can't register with OSCAR due to our lack of rankings...
You can change your rank after you have registered with Oscar. I was annoyed about the same problem until I decided to just guess my rank, register anyways, and worry about changing it later if I was wrong. It turns out that it is really easy to change after you've registered.
Thanks for the tip 4:24.
Has anyone made their "grade sheet" yet for OSCAR? (http://oscar.dcd.uscourts.gov/applicant-resources.html)
Are folks just calculating each semester's GPA and cumulative GPA by themselves?
Move this discussion over to Kevin Smith. Is it that hard to figure out?
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