In Re Fall Courses 2008
**Moving up, as TeleBears Phase II is upon us**
Yup. Here is your thread.
You may also find some useful information on this spring's fall courses thread, and at the Boalt Professor Review blog.
FWIW, my answer to (2) is, "Yes." I'm not a con law junkie. But I enjoyed the hell out of that class, partly because the professor is a gifted educator, but mostly because I have a deeply rooted and intense personal interest in dairy milk -- that vast, salubrious battlefield of Commerce Clause jurisprudence.
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In the tread below, Anonymous asks:Can we please have an open thread about classes? My phase II is coming up and I'm still really undecided about stuff. I'm interested in:
(1) any info on mediation with m-rshall? she has no posted reviews, so I'm skeptical.
(2) con law structural issues - worth taking for someone who is NOT a con law junkie?
(3) the wills and trusts takehome - hard?
(4) thoughts on classes with samu-lson in general?
Yup. Here is your thread.
You may also find some useful information on this spring's fall courses thread, and at the Boalt Professor Review blog.
FWIW, my answer to (2) is, "Yes." I'm not a con law junkie. But I enjoyed the hell out of that class, partly because the professor is a gifted educator, but mostly because I have a deeply rooted and intense personal interest in dairy milk -- that vast, salubrious battlefield of Commerce Clause jurisprudence.
Labels: Classes/Professors
posted by Patrick Bageant at 8:30 AM
51 Comments:
I have a question of my own, regarding Professor M versus Professor VH for Intro to IP. The rumor is that the VH syllabus is more manageable . . . true or false?
Also, do you have thoughts on taking it in the fall, (which means a class of 2 and 3L's), versus taking it in the spring with a the risk of of 1L IP hot-shots?
If you're a 2L you're not graded against the 1Ls in IP. But if your concern is having to listen to them in class, then yes, it's kind of annoying.
Prof. S. reserves a level of intensity, paranoia and passion for copyright normally only found in civil rights law.
Regarding Prof. M. v. Prof. VH for Intro to IP: Prof. M. covers more material and has been doing this longer. The class is more intense, but I think you'll get more out of it. PS: this class is a must for clerking.
With due respect to the previous comment, I think there's a strong case to be made that Intro to IP is not actually a must for clerking.
Can you clarify whether you think Intro to IP in general is essential to clerking, or whether it is Intro to IP with Menell?
Opinion of a former Boaltie and current clerk: Taking IP would be helpful to doing the actual work of a clerkship. However, its not a must on your transcript for applications.
Must classes for clerking include civ pro II, federal courts, maybe admin law.
Prof VH focuses much more on copyright, a little on patent, and summarily disregards TS and TM law. She's very well organized, uses power points that make sense and lack silly sounds, and uploads those presentations to the course website daily. She's very responsive and polite to student comments, but that is double-edged: you may become annoyed with her failure to cut off the ramblers in the class. A caveat for her: she cold calls.
Prof M is a much more in-depth class: its my understanding that his patent coverage removes the need to take patent law as an independent course later on. He uses silly sounds in his powerpoints and can be a little disorganized at times, but is by far the more experienced teacher and academic. A caveat for him: last semester he banned internet use in his classroom. He may do that again.
thanks for starting the thread!
LOL at treating (c) law like civil rights law - I'm in!
Men_ll's Intro to IP class was hands down the most valuable class I've taken at Boalt. But yes, a lot of work. Perhaps that's why it was valuable?
also, appellate advocacy - thoughts? maybe from the alumni/clerks in the bunch?
Perhaps others can confirm, but I heard Prof M. gave a 37 page final this spring.
FWIW, I took VH for property and really enjoyed her class. She is very clear and works hard to make sure you understand complicated subjects (like RAP).
re: Men_ll's class in the spring
the final was definitely ridiculously long (i remember it being near 40). but take heart - there were pictures and space for the short answer questions that basically more than doubled the actual amount of space for the questions asked.
the class was intense, the amount of background knowledge in the spring selection of students was a bit intimidating (but this coming from a then 1L; as a 2L i doubt its as bad). But at 8:20 in the morning as a 2L, hearing know-it-all 1Ls yammer on about inane shit might be annoying in its own right.
there's a lot to read, but you don't have to do it necessarily. there's a lot to learn and having the best outline isn't necessarily going to help you.
re: app ad
definitely helpful for any aspiring litigators out there. frnhlz is a great teacher: you'll become a better writer-advocate, and a more efficient researcher. helpful if you need a writing sample (especially for district court clerkships).
caveat: IF you do the work
Regarding intro to IP, the professor M everyone's talking about is probably not teaching it in the Spring, but the other professor M will be. I've heard it personally from both of them, though things may change. Professor M #2 is also great, so long as you're not a yankees fan.
IP a "must" for clerking? Be skeptical people, be skeptical.
Really 9:40? Ever try to do a patent case or copyright case with no background in the field?
But the job postings on OSCAR speak for themselves:
Judge Alsup, NDCal: "IP clerk needs patent background/interest and gets all IP cases."
Judge Ware, NDCal: "Judge Ware is looking for a person with a "science/technology" to fill our 'patent desk.'"
Judge Clark, EDTex: "Interest in IP and a technical or scientific background, especially chemistry, bio-chemistry, or the like is highly desirable. The court has an active patent docket, so a technical or scientific background, especially in chemistry, bio-chemistry or the like is important."
Judge Davis, EDTex: "Judge Davis has a very active intellectual property docket."
Judge Carter, CDCal: "Background or interest in IP is a plus"
Most OSCAR postings say very little, and I couldn't search them for any of these terms. But it didn't take much browsing to see that it is at minimum a "plus" and in many places a requirement. So don't take an anonymous word for it. Just look at the job postings.
REALLY says 9:40. ED Tex and ND Cal are the biggest patent dockets in the country, followed closely by CD Cal. Even in these districts I'm not convinced patent law (copyright is far less common, let alone trademark and trade secret) is a "must". Those quotes state it's a "plus" or "important." Judges - like Alsup - might have one clerk who can focus on patents, and others for the rest. Further, please explain to us how patent law is a must for clerking at any federal circuit court, other than the federal circuit. And to answer your question, federal judges decide IP cases every day without any experience in the field. If only IP was an easy ticket to a clerkship, as that's my specialty.
10:27 - I've talked to numerous clerks for judges. Usually all it is that in dockets with high number of patent litigation, 1 of the clerks has an IP background. Of course it (and other IP courses) are essentially a prerequisite for Fed. Cir., just like Admin. Law is essentially a prerequisite for the D.C. Circuit. Another tip is some 9th & 2nd Circuit judges like a clerk who has taken immigration law because of the huge caseload of appeals from the Bureau of Immigration Appeals.
Anyone ever have C*le for ConLaw 1st Am?
I had VH for Intro to IP. I'm the only one of my co-clerks with any IP background. We're managing just fine, and I'm positive we'd be doing just fine even if none of us knew the difference b/w a patent and a copyright. So...maybe the above poster would like to add a caveat that his/her statement may be most (if not only) relevant for district court clerks in California and/or Texas?
VH is excellent, her power points were very helpful, and her final is fair. The ramblers were definitely annoying, but I think all newer teachers are less adept at shutting them up. I think her class is especially good if you just want to take the Intro course.
Any thoughts on the Executive Compensation Seminar?
10:51,
Where do you see that C@ole is teaching 1st Am? I don't see it on the list of courses...
any thoughts on R*akowski tax?
off-topic, but pity the poor CA Bar exam-takers in SoCal during today's earthquake...
I'm not a superstitious person, but Ontario's cursed. The only redeeming value to that place (unless you actually enjoy the sound of trains rumbling by, the high heat, and the 909 in general) is the In n Out.
Scale of 1-10, how much work are:
wills & trusts
tax
antitrust
IP strategy
IP transactions
corporations
thank you.
(please no flames - for personal reasons, I need a few less time-consuming classes)
Classic moment at the San Diego convention center. 999 Applicants furiously pounding away on the third question of the morning. Mild shake rouses me and a few others to look around. Initial thoughts: construction in a nearby area. Then, major shaking causes every single bar applicant to pause for a second look up at the very-heavy, very-swinging light fixtures. After a few seconds it was clear that they weren't going to fall. All eyes back to the computer screens and everyone returns to pounding out their exams.
Truly priceless.
The proctors didn't even acknowledge that anything had happened.
In re: Prof VH v. Prof M
I took both for different IP courses. I prefer VH's in-class style. It's nothing personal against M, but I just feel that I learn more with VH because she makes an effort to be extremely clear. Each to their own. Try out whoever is teaching it in the fall. If you don't like it, drop and wait til the spring. But I don't think that VH is "easier" or M is "harder," or one is any more or less competent a teacher.
In re: Wills & Trusts. Not too difficult. Pretty interesting if you like property and the RAP. It's also useful if you plan to take the Cal Bar. I took Ferguson (adjunct). I really enjoyed the course and learned enough that I would feel comfortable if I was ever forced to write a will. It's heavy on practical skills, light on theory and case law (other than what he tells you about in class).
IP transactions is not a lot of work. And it's a fun and useful class, especially if you want to go into transactional practice.
Can any grads post encouraging words of us for those who are feeling awful after Day 1 of the California Bar exam?
My answers were all pretty short, and I'm worried that I didn't do enough analysis.
I feel like it's a lost cause.
Or not....
Hang in there 6:33. The short answers are supposed to be short. And they're a measly fraction of your grade. Rock the performance test (which you can do as a Boaltie) and do the multiple choice and you'll keep chugging along.
I'd be worried about you if you were smug about how you did. At least you can eliminate 3 subjects. Watch some garbage TV, don't read this blog, hope for no natural disasters, casually look over some notes over dinner, rest well, and kick ass.
Still enjoying Barbri saying that presidential powers won't be on the test and then getting a big fat presidential powers problem. Also facial 4th amendment challenge = WTF?
Thanks guys :)
But, uh, if you want to stress out, feel free to carefully peruse (future topic of Sunday Lexicon, Patrick?) the final exams that Obama gave at Chicago. (HT: VC)
And then imagine the kind of final exam the current President would draft.
Yeah, presidential powers question. WTF. I had no clue, and am freaked out that apparently a buncha people knew about "Youngstown" (I only learned of this after the bar) and how presidential powers are at their "zenith" blabla...
And yeah, facial fourth amendment challenge?
My answer: "Here's everything I know about the Fourth Amendment as it relates to police search/seizures. kthxbai."
ALR: yay or nay?
My vote is "Yay."
ALR saved my ass this summer. Knowing that something is in the Westlaw database, but not knowing how to locate it, is a maddening experience. Especially when you go through that experience at work. I'm pretty thankful I took it.
You should probably use Lexis then. Plus they have better giveaways. Thoughts on this, Patrick?
My thoughts are just as unprintable as you undoubtedly calculated.
More importantly, can the career center please spring for the 2008 Vault rankings? The 2007 rankings are so 2006.
any thoughts on fed courts w/ fl-tch-r? is he really worth 8:30 AM on a friday? And will the class be totally filled with gunners?
A resounding yes to both. I won't comment beyond that on the latter but on the former here are some thoughts.
First, he is a kind, gentle, and very witty man. Judge for yourself. Second, the class is a great way of tying Con Law, CPII, and general law student nerdiness together. WF will make sure you thoroughly understand jurisdiction, something that will help you later on during the bar and in practice.
Thoughts on taking Fed Courts w/ Fl*tch*r before I've taken Con Law? Bad idea?
Here's what will happen with the Obama exams, which Armen points to above: McCain camp or an "unendorsed PAC" will intentionally confuse the substance of a law school hypo (see, e.g., gay adoption hypo in 1993 exam) with the substance of Obama via a very small commercial release, which right-wing radio will seize upon, followed by mass media coverage, and then after everyone has forgotten about the details, the intelligent media will do the cleanup, explaining the difference between a law exam and real life (and perhaps point out the irony, given that McCain graduated 4th from bottom of his undergraduate class). In any case, DAMAGE DONE.
Will Obama be able to overcome the Swift-boating, which has already begun? I don't think his camp has handled the incident this week very well, where a McCain commercial made a patently false accusation regarding Obama cancelling a visit to injured soldiers in Germany.
Taking Fed Courts without taking Con Law would be a very bad idea. If that's the only way you'll get to take it (i.e. you are a 3L), it might still be worth it, but prepared to have a hard class be even harder. I took Fed Cts without having taken CPII, which was manageable, but mostly because I already knew a lot of jurisdiction. If you are clueless about jurisdiction, taking fed cts without CPII would be super hard.
Thanks, 7/31 4:19 PM. Very helpful. I appreciate it.
- 7/30 4:20 PM
Hello,
I'm an LLM and I would like to ask if you have any insights on these courses:
Legal profession (Steele)
Sales (Kosel)
Property (Volpp)
Evidence (Brown)
Mediation (Marshall)
Thanks!
I haven't taken a course with the professors mentioned. However, here are some general thoughts about the courses..
- There is only one course for legal profession this semester and it's a required course if you'd like to take the bar. You'll have to check to see if it's offered second semester, if you don't have time to take it this semester. -Property and Evidence are both courses that would probably be considered one of the core course areas that the California Bar requires for LLM's.
-Mediation and all the conflict resolution classes (negotiation) tend to be popular courses. They are skills-based courses and have more role-playing exercises.
Steele (legal profession)is engaging. In class you will
discuss very interesting ethical dilemmas that you may encounter while practicing. Readings consist of reading the ABA Model Rules of
Professional Responsibility and thinking of hypotheticals.
I also took Kosel who is a great professor. She is very clear, funny, and an expert in the field. She is also very interested in the LLM perspective. This class is great for preparing for the bar.
Volpp is one of the worst instructors I have ever had, and that includes my 1st grade teacher who molested me in the cubby room.
She does not seem interested in either property law (which I had her for) or teaching law. Thus, she not only seems to know very little about the subject; she does not make any attempt to engage with the material or with students. She seemed very disorganized and unprepared throughout the entire semester. Among the things we did over the semester: had guest speakers (other Boalt profs) lecture on Indian law and intellectual property law, watched a video on the civil rights movement, watched a video on Barry Bonds' record-breaking homerun, watched a video on the history behind Shellmound street in Berkeley (each of these videos took up a couple class periods), and did an exercise where we were told to "act out" future interests. She also changed the format of the final exam within the last couple weeks of the semester (a minor complaint in the grand scheme of thigns, but annoying nonetheless).
I pity any 1L who is forced to take property with her, and think any LLM's time would be better spent gouging their eyes out with a rusty knife.
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